Your cross-realm love: 1.62D

[Caohmin]

"This sounds a lot more like a cheap shot"

Of course it does, because it is. Tit for tat and all that.

"Archers in general back then were much like Assassins now"

"archers in general back then were overpowered"

Not really what we were talking about, eh? I think this discussion is centered around archer's performance today. Not 'back in the day.' They suck NOW and need help.

<I've seen archers taken out by casters with just a few casts. From my own anecdotal data, I surmise that casters are overpowered and need to be 'balanced.' See how it works?>

"Well I haven't and I seriously doubt that is true accross the broad spectrum (though im assuming your are making that statement to illustrate rather than as an example), "

Thank you. Yes, that was the point and I'm glad you recognized it. Personally, I have seen casters take lots of people, very quickly and not just archers.

The point is anecdotal evidence is biased and does not show a clear representation of what is happening. On top of that, your anecdotal evidence and personal observations date back about 12 months. Yep, a loooooong time ago, archers were uber, but that was quite a long time ago. They suck NOW and need help.

"truth is I see very few archers other than in seige situations..."

Hmm, why is it that you don't see many archers?

"My opinions are not based solely on my scout but also on the receiving end as a 50."

From 'back in the day,' you mean. Archers really are not as uber as you think they are anymore. Back in the day, archers killed me, a plate wearer.

"Elsewhere it was stated that the fumble rates do not vary with level, nor do the miss rates. My experience then as a 26 archer is valid and while i don't doubt people like Durandana in citing dificulties I also know I don't miss often at all."

The random number generator has been kind to you, that's all; it happens. While it may be valid, it's not the case, to use your words, "accross the broad spectrum." This is why personal observation and anecdotal data is incomplete.

The Scout TL has performed tests and it's been documented and submitted to Mythic. I'm sure that is a huge part of why the fumble/miss rates are being adjusted. Just whining 'I miss alot!' gets you nothing. Going to Pendragon, performing extensive tests and then submitting logs to the devs is what helps bring about change.

Basically, your whole argument was based on your own personal observation of 'way back when' and that you don't want to return to that. While your observations may have had some validity back then, it doesn't reflect archers today. I agree and I don't think anyone (except maybe archers) wants to see archers returning to the uber sniping days.

At least you finally conceded that archers need help.

[Lifesbane]

mythic did say that archer's fumble rate was much higher for archers, so im not gunna discuss that, but on the subject of just plain misses you have to realize that bow shots are basicly styled attacks that give you no bonuses (i.e. they use endurence, but give no damage bonus, status effect, defencive bonus and most importantly no to-hit bonus). the lack of any to-hit bonus is part of what makes archers have such high miss rates in rvr (just plain miss, not talking about BT's or any of that). one thing that ive been thinking about as an explination for bolldar's aparent lower miss rate would be enimy armor factor. at low levels enimy armor factors would be much lower, and as far as i know thats a big factor in the "hit or miss" calculation. now, combine this with the no to-hit bonus on bow shots and you would probably see a significantly higher miss rate at higher levels. just a thought.

now on another note, why the hell do shield users get a bonus vs. arrows? not just a small bonus either, they are TWICE as likely to block an arrow as they are a normal shot. as far as i know thats fact, not generalization...i can understand a little bonus, but 200% seems a little harsh

[Amberryl]

about the miss rates, i think your distance from the target should have something to do with a "to hit" factor. Im only saying this because I recall duoing with LB once and the monster was like 2 ft from him, and he missed it with his bow... thats pretty unrealistic, dumb, and would make a scout as LB would put it, a "fumbling retard."

they should have a set range that is the median, like... lets say 2000 or so.... when the target gets further and further range > 2000, then the to hit percent should decrease. and when the range < 2000, you should get a higher percent to hit bonus.

just a thought....

/me gets application for Mythic Game Engineer

[Axecleaver]

I think the shield bonus is even higher than that. I can tell you that with 50+15 shield and mastery 3, I have never been shot with a bow in the 180 degree arc in front of me. Dating back as far as mastery 2, which I've had for months, I can't remember getting hit with a bow. One time I was guarding someone during a siege and blocked at least 100 shots. They did connect once (oneshot kill) but I believe my squishy lagged beyond my guard range.

I think the forumla for bowshots is
30% + (1% * shieldspec) + Masterylevel * 6 + (dex bonus)

So for axe with buffs it would be over 100%. Indeed, anybody with 50 shield would have over a 95% chance to block arrows.

30 + 65 + 18 + (dex bonus; not sure what'd be).

[Bolldar Bloodaxe]

Historically with a large shield you could pretty much block most arrows. Of course some very powerful bows could penetrate a sheild though the pull on those bows was pretty horendous. Of course arced shots were somewhat effective against shielded troops if some shots were arced and others straight at the target.

Against a single archer though a sheilded warrior (large shield) could reasonably expect to block most shots.

My views on archers btw dont stem from the distant past but that is certainly not something i want to return too.