Your cross-realm love: 1.62D

[Mchagen]

Tishiri used to do over 1000 with crits on his bolts.  But that was old-school damage.  Back in the days of lower resists and fewer high-grade items.  I think his top number was 1200 iirc, on an even con.  

[Amberryl]

/pharm

[Bolldar Bloodaxe]

Heh I remember well dieing in one shot to Prototype repeatedly with Amerasu, not an experience i want to repeat anytime soon especially when i got to suffer same from Zerkers and SBs already lol,  that guy must have one shotted me like 50 times. And that was when BT worked, BT is very easy to loose and anything that hits you can cancel it. In a big combat you can be killed before you notice or can recast it quite easily. Im not sure what effect this change will have but archers were already doing ok vs casters in my opinion. They hit damn hard as it is, though they don't hurt as much as they used to but hell being killed in one shot was never fun nor a good thing.  Im going to level my scout some to see but so far he is fine in RvR with regard to damage dealing etc. Who knows though, i suspect the whole fumble thing had some level component in it since at 25 my fumble rate was fine and my archer can take out orange mobs without a drama solo unbuffed. It seems odd though to gimp a class as they get to higher levels besides i know the rangers etc who shot at my casters didnt seem to fumble too much Archers seem to be getting a lot done for them anyway, I really hope it doesnt take them back to where they were though since they used to be overpowered.

Bolts might have improved trouble is most wizards specced out of them thanks to them being so useless and of course since they making them slightly better we not getting a respec. Which is a pretty sucky policy since most Alb classes could stand improvement means we not going to see respecs like the middies who get one while being nerfed then get an improvement to styles to compensate for it anyway with there Zerkers. Eldritch spec lines were always more effective anyway I think, in part at least to the primary debuffer being common ie enchanter. Sorcerers are still a bit of a rarity by comparision so wizards dont often get to nuke against a debuffed opponent. Eldritchs can also debuff three lines of damage including there PBAOE and GTAOE and stun 9secs mez  and near sight amongst other things. Its a whole lot more flexiable class and does the same damage other than its top bolt (miniscule difference) as a wizard.

I might wind up taking Bolldar for a run but still think Poles too slow to be really effective and plagued by poor styles etc (there is a problem with landing a blow too with the reactive to styles type styles too, in that if anything mucks it up ie a normal stroke as you do your style you loose your stam for no gain, which given the time it takes to swing is a problem)  and high miss rates. How long has Poleaxe been totally useless for?? Never seen an answer to that  despite it being a well known fact.

Im not rushing to respec Amerasu till I see what happens anyway. Been a lot of changes, my overall impression is they are bad for Albion but who knows till we see the results.

[Mchagen]

Polearm styles are better than 2-handed ones. ; P

I didn't have a problem with my scout until after 35, make your judgement then.  You're getting killed by hunters and rangers, not scouts.  Hunters/rangers > scouts.  Scouts should have some ability in their bow line that the other two archers don't have.

[Durandana]

Amer was you standing still for a long time waiting for a Crit shot to land on you?

Most of my Crit shots turn into regular shots because either the person is in combat or they are moving. Against a level 50 caster it usually takes me at least 3 regular shots to kill them. 2 shots if they dont have max resists from items.

And on the same subject i was out in Emain yesterday getting killed by casters in 3 shots. So where is the part that is unfair?  Casters can kill me faster than i can kill them unless i am buffed with 40+ Enhance buffs.

Get your Scout to level 50 and then tell me how you feel. the Battle Ground levels are no judge of the abilities at level 50.

[Amberryl]

be fortunate that a respec stone here only costs 500 gold. in mid, the same respec stone costs 7 plat.... thats a lot = /

[Lifesbane]

"Im not sure what effect this change will have but archers were already doing ok vs casters in my opinion"

- thats because your looking at it from only the perspective of the caster. hypothetical situation:
your running around nuking and such, when suddenly get hit pretty damn hard. you say to yourself "WTF, i just got hit for xxx damage! thats BS, archers shouldnt be able to hit like that". so what you take away from that instance is that archers can effectivly and efficiently killer casters...however that isnt the case. all you have to do is hit your /face macro (which i segest all casters have) and quick cast the spell of your choice at mr. archer...if you got it, nearsight him, if you dont theres bolts, nukes, mez, dot, root (it'll interupt him and allow you to get out of range), insta-debuffs (again, interupt)...and thats just one way to pwn an archer. you have to realize that for every time he hits you for 800+ damage, he's tried (and failed) a hundred others. oakleif, the scout TL, has done hundreds of logs and tests...they have shown that on average scouts land 1 in 5 arrows in rvr. 1 IN 5! yep, thats 20% of your arrows actually hitting the target. just stop a second and amagine if 80% of you spells were resisted.

edit: i may seem a little hostile on some of these subjects, but thats probably fair, because i am. it just shows you how poorly mythic designed archers. nobody wants to be one shotted, and understandably so. mythic created archers, and in particular scouts, with sniping in mind (if nobody at mythic saw sniping when they put stealth, big range, and a very hard hitting ranged weapon on one class...its beyond me). this lead to people (understandably) getting upset. mythic, in all their wisdom, added ways to negate the abilities of archers, instead of just weakening them. so what you have now is set of classes that are endlessly frustrating and useless, but still have the PONTENTIAL to be devistating. its makes archers mad that they cant do crap, and when they are finally able to do what they do well, it makes the casters get pissed off. thats what you call poor class design.

/rant off

(Edited by Lifesbane at 12:30 am on May 6, 2003)

[Amberryl]

I see your point LB, but about the whole perspective thing, you should really take Lifezbane out RvRing more to get a better caster perspective

[Bolldar Bloodaxe]

Heh, i take it from the perspective that my archer rarely ever misses, and has little difficulty taking down a caster.  On the recieving end they have in the past one shotted me consistently, the score vs Prototype is 50 for him zero for me. So forgive my lack of symathy they hit hard enough and quick enough that I can face all I want and they can still kill me cos I just dont  see them missing me very often. I also dont possess nearsight stun or any of the other goodies which might pervent them treating me like a pin cushion.

Wizards unfortunately dont have anything like an archers hitting pwr even post nerf and we certainly up to this date anyway, miss, get blocked get resisted also even if we have bolts (which most dont really have any more) and dont get he dreaded in melee message.

Archers are just one of a lot of classes which can take out casters very swiftly however *shrugs* unless your a enchanter of course

[Lifesbane]

a level 26 scout is nothing like a 45+ scout in rvr, the two are in no way comperable.

amber, as ive said before, my ice wizard CONSISTANTLY lives longer in rvr then my scout ever did. ive been killed by archers plenty of times..one shotted, two shotted...yeah it sucks a lot, but in those instances the ranger/hunter deserved to win. ive also kicked the asses of rangers/hunters plenty of times without a considerable amount of difficulty. /face, quickcast spell...its as easy as that. the hunter's pet can be a bitch to deal with, and i must say hunter+pet > my caster-playing ability in many cases.

amer, ive been one-shotted by proto before too, and not just as my wiz, he's one shotted my scout on more then one occasion. want to know why? because i was stupid enough to stand around all day and let him line up a crit. if you've let him line up and crit you 50 times you must be using some tactics ive never heard of before.

edit: also take into account that proto is a very skilled player and has 1.5 million rp's...with that kind of RA spending power you've got some big advantages over your more casual players

(Edited by Lifesbane at 6:34 pm on May 6, 2003)

[Caohmin]

"a level 26 scout is nothing like a 45+ scout in rvr, the two are in no way comperable."

Which is true with just about every character class. Going against low level characters in the BGs is nothing like high level RvR, especially if you are facing opponents with tons of RAs. For one, resists in the BGs is low to non-existent, nevermind the difference in skill/experience you'll find.

Anecdotal data from one level 26 archer is hardly enough to change my opinion that archers need some help from the devs. Perhaps the random number generator has been kind to your character, Boll.

These changes are enough to bring Sidd out of retirement, that alone makes me think that this patch is a good thing.

[Bolldar Bloodaxe]

Well im glad its bringing you out of retirement However being one shot by Proto didnt take any special tactics, every seige he would drop scores of people. Its been quite a while since he did so however and i think the new person playing him is not so good. Mind you I saw Proto out tank Noreen with no more than a 20% HPs loss on his part and heard of him doing same to some real Albion tanks so he was pretty damn tough.

/Face doesnt do a lot when you are totally outranged btw and against a good archer he will have you in serious trouble before you can do squat.  Add in shooting while hidden behind a tree and you cant even target them. In general the archer has the upper hand.

I would agree that RAs are not so developed in the BGs but not so sure on the resists as I think many players who RvR there have fairly good resist armour as do many of ours.  

I do also agree with what you said earlier about Mythic making a mistake when they created a sniper class, but would extend that to the assassin classes. Stealth in general as presently implemented was the worst thing they ever did partly at least cos there is no stealth, just plain old invis nor much skill involved in using it IMO.

One thing you will never convince me of is that stealthers of any ilk are more difficult to RvR with than casters or any other class for that matter.

BTW casting does require you to stand around, it goes with the turf, no instas no running nukes.

(Edited by Bolldar Bloodaxe at 5:03 am on May 7, 2003)

[Malison]

bah, just you wait, my pet will chase  you all down.

[Durandana]

Well Amer, I for one am not gonna argue with you any more. All i know is i die too casters in RvR more than i can kill them. They can cast faster than i can shoot.

[Mchagen]

I didn't read all the paragraph drivel above.  

You have to remember Boll, that 90% of those archers that you mention are RR7+ and are fully buffed.