1.60b Patch Notes

[Mchagen]

Yeah, apparently it was a huge deal on the dev forums--people asking for unique avatar icons, aka cheesy looking hats.  :/

This patch hinted at this being the end of the changes for albion.  I hope not, because our elementalist casters are still hurting and there are still some left-over issues on the other supposedly 'fixed' classes.  Archer changes would affect all realms.

[Malison]

Concerning the cabalists viability in RvR....

I love how absolutely nothing changed in the last 6 months, yet somehow people's perceptions of Cabalists went from "dude, you guys suck" to "man you guys are the best RvR class out there."  Its just friggin weird.

FYI our pets did need a MAJOR buff, and we got just that.  Considering the fact that we rely on our pet for 50 levels, it was pretty sad that their only purpose in RvR was to chase down stealthers.  They are still going to get mezzed, stunned, and beaten down with 3 styles like always.  At least now with a casting one, we don't have to send them into melee.  The defensive buffs on the emerald help too, but it isn't going to make them able to take an even con tank..ever.  

And no, we arent the best casting class out there for RvR.  You may see us hit 20 people with an aoe dot, but unless I have 2 clerics and a blocker, I'm still the FIRST guy to go down, and my dot promptly fades away.  

People seem to forget that I have to live for 24 seconds for my dot to do 700 dmg.  My life span in most situations is 6 to 10 seconds.  I've found the only way i can live longer is to cast then RUN the opposite direction of the enemy until they are out of sight. I feel so brave.

[Caohmin]

"IMO we don't need a 15-19 BG, we need a 36-40 one...
It's not a big deal to rvr at a pathetic level 15 because most of your class abilities are really defined until level 20.  

As it currently stands, the gap of 36-45 for rvr purposes is too large because no one goes out at that low anymore, and if you do, you're barely even cannon fodder."

One of the ideas I read on the dev boards was the ability to level through the BGs. Adding the 15-19 BG coupled with the exp medal you get when you 'graduate' and a previous change that gave us exp for killing PCs seems to fit along these lines. I wouldn't be surprised if they added higher end BGs in a future patch.

[Rosslyn]

You know what confuses me about the BG experience thing?  I thought it said that to get it,  you had to be at the RP cap for that BG, but then it also said you couldn't be over it.  Did I read that wrong, or do you have to somehow hope to get EXACTLY the number of RP's needed to max out, and then hurry and disband mid-fight so that  you don't go over?  

Hopefully I'm wrong...

[Malison]

Ross, it was just a poorly worded post I'm sure.  Its gotta be >= the realm point cap.  

[Zutroy]

The intersesting thing about DoTs is, as a tank who generally has >2000 Hps buffed, they don't affect me much at all. I can stand there for the entire duration and only lose around 20% of my life. Meanwhile, it takes me less than 10 seconds to kill the average caster. (Hell, as a zerker it takes me less than 30 seconds to kill anyone)

Now I'm not saying they need a boost (they kill casters and unbuffed hybrids in 1 cast usually) but maybe it should be changed to a % based life drain instead of a pure "100 damage every 6 seconds" kinda thing. Maybe make it take off 50% of the target's life after the full duration and scale the damage accordingly.

Obviously this would overpower the AE DoT so some changes would have to be made there, but seems viable no?

[Bolldar Bloodaxe]

Quote: from Malison on 9:14 am on Feb. 6, 2003
Concerning the cabalists viability in RvR....

I love how absolutely nothing changed in the last 6 months, yet somehow people's perceptions of Cabalists went from "dude, you guys suck" to "man you guys are the best RvR class out there."  Its just friggin weird.

FYI our pets did need a MAJOR buff, and we got just that.  

Hmm, this would seem to be contradictory Malison, since you say nothing changed, then follow it with you got a major change you needed.

My statement regarding the viability of cabalists stems from two sources, the many other classes who consider them good at RvR, and many cabalists who have stated the same. I don't doubt you need further help, I think all Albion casters do, but I also think your probably better off from what I have seen, than the other Albion caster classes.

As to your survivability, believe me with the ability to nearsight and a pet, its better than a wizard (wizards are pretty much all offense, gimped though it might be and no defense to speak of) though not by much I would grant you. Surviveability for all cloth casters in Albion is pretty attrocious and the quoted times for zerkers taking down casters are in my experience way over the top, lol. Im a run by kill for any zerker or even shadowzerker, ie I last less than two seconds, usually less than one when hit by zerkers. This is possibly due in part to sucky melee resists on the part of the epic armour, but I can only see that stretching things out by a few seconds.

With regard to Theurgists I had always thought them a fairly good class but I hear to many complaints of how bad they are to continue to believe that.

For wizards, the Fire spec is pretty much totally gimped in RvR (my favourite spec and the most popular one of course), it relies heavily on bolts which simply dont work in RvR, they are blocked, miss, are resisted, degraded by armour and worse get the in combat message 98% of the time completely negating them. Fire wizards pretty much don't have anything but the bolt to differentiate them from any other caster most of whom have equal str DDs. Fire is prob one of the most commonly resisted attacks also. Earth is still a gimpy line, really only have GT AOE (no range attenuation on the AOE is one nice feature of this spell) which is now on a timer as a defining spell line. Really useful for seiges but not that great anywhere else. Earth also has no DD (thing wiz uses most) effectively lowering their potential.

Ice with its PBAOE can be effective with adequate support, that means dedicated blockers (50 sheild or there abouts) healers, buffs and MOC (MOC is 24 RPs to get so kind of expensive and on a 30 min timer) The damage done by PBAOE also attenuates fairly rapidly as distance increases from the caster so if your on the edge of the casting area it doesnt do much. The ice DD is a bit weaker then the fire and you have to remain fixed to use PBAOE and hope the fight centres on you and that you survive any ranged attacks. All this can  happen if your with the right group in the right situation, getting all the right circumstances can be problematic however, especially if not playing peak times, lol.

BTW the hibby/middy DOTs work very nicely against Albion cloth casters both in terms of interuption effect and just plain killing power.

Wizards are a class I know the limitations of very well, and how vunerable they are. Though as I stated before that vunerability is pretty common with all cloth casters though some have compensations. Till we get some major changes I think as the wizard TL said we are generally RPs on the hoof for the mids/hibs.

The noises Mythic are making with regard to Albion casters are a bit scary since they seem to be indicating that we are fixed as of 1.60b. They have done almost nothing for wizards (lowering the ice DD cast timing to conform to other DDs is all) and in general our casters still need a lot of help if they are to become viable.

[Gueuze]

During the six months Malison was referring to, nothing changed.  He was not referring to the patch that has not yet gone live.  Emphasize the word 'just' in the second paragraph.

[Mchagen]

If you go to the camelot herald and line up wizard lines to theurgist lines, you'll realize why I say theurgists need more help.  More doesn't mean wizards don't need help.  

If our theurgists were better off, every caster would be better off because PBT would be viable, as it stands, it is not.  

IMO, matter cabs and body sorcs are the two best albion casters.  Cabalists had some serious problems when this game was released and it's that reason why there are so few today.  They did get previous help though.    

[Malison]

I'm sorry if I tried to make it seem like I have it worse than all the other Albion cloth casters.  I believe Wizards still get more kills, but I know Theurgists have to struggle.  Sorcerers are plagued with the same problems as cabalists, unless they went full body and got the wizard like spec DDs.

Gueuze was correct, I was talking about the past months. I was literally laughed at on the battlefield as a freak for playing a cab before I took my break a few months ago.  I came back and found none of my abilites had changed, and yet people thought cabalists were suddenly dangerous in RvR.

I would take the wizards bolts for taking out other casters any day.  I know they are practically worthless versus anyone with armor, and those being guarded/blocked, but they are a lot quicker than waiting 24 seconds to kill your target (and hoping they dont get healed.)  That right there is a big consideration,  my targets can all be healed before they die. One single cast of a group heal negates my aoe dot.  

Sometimes, I even get the urge to respec out of matter and into spirit for the body debuff. Then I could nuke like an enchanter.  Of course, I'd have absolutely no other offense.  Maybe I'll try it on Pendragon, if they open the character copier back up.

Why am I typing all this? I'm at work of course!

[Axecleaver]

---
Sometimes, I even get the urge to respec out of matter and into spirit for the body debuff. Then I could nuke like an enchanter.
---

You would think so... but I heard that the cab base nuke wasn't all that. Enchanters hit for 550-650 with this debuff; cabalists hit for around 350 with it, from what I have heard.

It would be neat to do this and pair up with a smite cleric though. Test it on pendragon.

[Lifesbane]

"- Longshot now has a reuse timer of 5 minutes, and Volley now has a reuse timer of 1 minute."

dont F*** with me mythic, dont F*** with me

[Bolldar Bloodaxe]

One thing I can guarantee you is that bolts are almost totally useless in RvR, I think I killed one blue once with a bolt. With a 4 second wind up, 20 second recast you will not find any wizards who dont decry how gimped they are, and with the resists they suffer causing them to never one shot anything, they are not hard to run away from before the wizard can cast a second (he only has two before the 20 second timer take effect) Thats assuming they actually hit, are not blocked or resisted in the first place.

Bolts in RvR are the single most useless spell a wizard has. In fact the only place bolts are useful is solo PvE, DOTs in RvR are actually much better vs casters and I have died many times to them cos often no one is healing. I actually came into RvR with the expectation of useing bolts to cause some big damage. However it very rarely happens, besides 4 seconds standing still casting is often a death warrant anyway.

You should try playing a wizard in RvR and see how rarely a bolt ever works Within the 4 seconds (3 maybe if your fast) everyone is engaged in combat and guess what you can bolt to your hearts content and nothing with happen except a waste of mana.

The damage figures Axe quoted btw are way above what a wizard can dish out in RvR. I can do up to almost 2K in PvE but in RvR its rare for me to exceed 400, I think I hit a blue with a bolt once for 680 but normally im hitting for between 100 and 400 and that includes with PBAOE. Enchanters outdamage me by a large margin and are almost impossible for a wiz to kill because of the enchanter stun,  they can kill you while your stunned and do so even if you get the first cast off. I found a consistent pattern of Stun, debuff nuke, nuke and i was dead every time without even a chance to reply.

I wasn't trying to say anything againt Cabalists btw Mal just going on what Cabs/others had told me.

(Edited by Bolldar Bloodaxe at 3:02 pm on Feb. 7, 2003)

[Malison]

ROFL Lifesbane, you're starting to sound like Demirage.

You know what would be really useful? Mythic needs to start recording every statistic imaginable.  Either that, or have our client record it.  In particular, it should record your average damage in RvR fights, sorted out by your target, his level, resist, class, and equipment, and any spells/effects he has up.  Then, we could actually analyze real data to see what people have the best chance of survival/dmg output in RvR.  

I think DToC did a lot of this for us, its a damn shame they banned it.

Hell, even a simple rating of how useful you are to your group would be interesting to know.

You interrupted a caster = 10 points
You killed a character = 50 pts
You blocked an attack on your teammate = 10 pts
You broke a mez = -50 pts

my personal favorite would be:
You aoe dotted the enemy and prevent your team from mezzing!
if you=albs then +50 pts (what's mez?)
if you=mids 0pts (we'll just stun)
if you=hibs -150 pts! (j00 r a n00b!)

It wouldn't be completely accurate, but it would tell a hell of a lot more than a I.R.S. Score.

[Caohmin]

You made an incredibly revealing mistell in /gu: -100 points.