Help me follow the logic

[Malison]

First let me say, most of this post is directed at everyone, not Zanrath.

Powerleveling? Tough finding groups?? I think i know a thing or two about that!  

I spent the majority of my career, solo, and not by choice. Cabalists had nothing to give to groups for the longest time, shunned even.  The only time I could get a group was when the Vengeance people decided to forma  guild group.  Now that almost everyone has a 50, thats not quite so common.

So first off let me say, I know what you are going through.  Soloing isn't very fun, and with all these buffbots running around, its hard to find a group.  

Here are my thoughts on powerleveling, since that's probably my only forte these days:

NEVER ask to be power leveled. Joke about it if you like, but its downright rude, even to guildies.  Some of us feel really guilty telling our friends to go away, so will just give in and do it, even though we aren't having any fun.
I'll freely offer to PL people if I'm in the mood, need cash, or am in a group that wouldn't be hindered by an extra person.  I powerlevel Lifesbane's characters on a frequent basis, and can usually add another with no problem.

And yes, the level 6's experience DOES degrade after 3 people, significantly.  I'm not saying they shouldn't bother to lend you a spot, a level 6 should be doing kill tasks, not getting PL'd.  If i ever have more than 3 people (including myself) in a group doing pygmies, the exp goes to hell and its not even worth my time being out there.

Concerning the twink night, Duran covered the point pretty well. We created our characters with the idea of a cohesive group who learned to play RvR well together.  We play every tuesday and wednesday, though some of us are too busy to play both nights.   One of the big assumptions was that we would also stay fairly close in levels, so we drug out the levelling process a lot longer so people could stay caught up if they missed a night.  A lot of people didn't stay very committed to the idea, or had other obligations.  So we were left with a huge level disparity and very low participation past level 24.  Its somewhat frustrating to me that we are out there like clockwork and then people complain about there not being guild groups.  We've given people every opportunity to keep up with us and join our squads, but some would rather play their high level characters, some would rather roll a new alt, and others would rather race to 50 ahead of us.  That's fine, its their option, but I don't want to be guilt tripped saying there's no guild support for levelling lowbies. I'm on every tuesday and wednesday from 5:30 to 10, ready to pull out my level 34 paladin, I hope more of you will join us, because I LOVE seeing the guild together.

I will say this, if you want to be involved in the beatsquad, plan for it.  Clear your tuesday and wednesday evenings, pick a character, level it up to 20 with kill tasks, and then contact me in game.  I'll do whatever I can to make sure you get involved, whether it be powerlevel at the tanglers or just invites into our level 30 guild groups.  But I want to see participation thereafter, not play a couple of nights then shelve the character for a month.

Albion's problem isn't lack of 50s. Its lack of RvR participation, skill, instas, and general morale. More numbers would help of course, but we have the numbers, they just dont play.

Zanrath - I notice you have 2 characters who could be a big help in our squad: Phaosa and Zanrath.  Bring them out.  Like I said, we are always looking for more.  Melissima still needs a level, and so I'm up for levelling when possible.  Same goes for Sammuel if you see him.

(Edited by Malison at 9:15 am on May 12, 2003)

[shaygod]

So I guess I'll jump in with my first post.  Have to start somewhere, I suppose...

While Zanrath did mention PLing, I don't think that was intended to be the "meat" of the post, or the focus of his complaint.

Myself being a newcomer to both the guild and game, I'm slogging up through the levels much like everybody else has done in the past.  I'm still a n00b, and that's probably not going to be changing any time soon.

However, about the only reason I play the game is because of a sense of community.  I'm a social player, and I get a lot more enjoyment out of joking around and chatting than I get from killing the same mob 200 times.  As such, I look to play the game with other people.  99% of the time, I'm grouped with Zanrath (or an alternate of his), but it's even cooler when we hook up with a bunch of Vengies to go tackle something.

Which is why "twink night" is so cool.  I finally got my main character up to the same level as everybody's alternates.

Now, in the conversation(s) I've read in guild chat -- and on this forum -- over the last few months, I've gotten the impression (however correct it may be) of the following:

1) Albs suck in RvR.
2) The Mids and Hibs not only own us, but all our relics.
3) The reason we don't do better is because of a lack of level 50 chars for RvR.

Now, despite my finesse with computer games, and general lack of knowledge with this one in particular, I'm a reasonably competitive person.  I wanna get up there "with the big boys" and help out with the ass-kicking.  And I don't think I'm alone in feeling like that.

Because of this, there are times when it's somewhat frustrating traveling the slow route up to 50.  I completely respect the fact that you've all blazed the trail before me; several times over, actually, for some of you.

However, some of the higher-level individuals have been recently stating their own frustration with the RvR situation, and I think this has led to the current confusion.

I think what Zanrath wanted to point out is that it's a bit disheartening for us to see the higher level individuals complaining about there not being more high level players around for RvR; especially when we're working as hard as we can to get ourselves up there.  As you've all said, it's not easy, and it takes a damn lot of effort.  We will get there, but it's going to take a little while.

I would never, in a million years, want to detract from another’s enjoyment of the game; but realize that when we hear the lamenting from the high-level people about the RvR situation, it gives the impression that the game would be even more enjoyable for them if there were a whole bunch of level 50 Albion players.  And, if I understand correctly the point that Zanrath is trying to convey, it is in these moments that some of the lower level players wonder why there isn’t a more proactive effort being made to get the lower level players up to 50.

Whether the assumption is correct or not is immaterial; it’s merely what gets inferred from the message traffic.  I seriously doubt that anybody wants to leech, or be a “charity case”.  We just really want to help out and have fun.  And as such, Zanrath was suggesting a possible solution to everyone’s problems: the high level players wanting more people for some ass-kicking RvR, and the lower level players wanting to speed up the process to attain the lofty level of 50.  Everybody wins.

[Malison]

Sadly, even more bodies out there won't really help us win, unless we bring so many new faces that we have a huge numerical advantage.  

Midgard has been winning for a while now.  One of their beat squads has more Realm points than the entire alb zerg combined.  They've got experience, some even have tactics.  Most importantly, they have a cohesive group of people that play together daily, in the same setup. They know each others skills and play off that.  

Alb forms pickup groups.  While a pickup group can do very well if they take the time to put together the right number of classes, they still will be lacking when going up 8v8 against most midgard veterans.  I've found a tank heavy alb group with a cleric with BoF and a minstrel with SoS does particularly well. Add in a cabalist for nearsight and disease and you'll do even better

There's an entire flame-ridden thread about why albs don't do so well in RvR over on the IGN Iseult boards.  Some of the top things I've seen posted are:
*low population <-- we have less 50s than mid, but more than hibernia, and you don't see hibernia hurting so badly
*Because everyone knows camelot, the teenagers and casual gamers come here <--probably true, casual gamers don't want to wake up at 6 am to defend relics, nor do they get excited about taking keeps when they could farm RP in emain
*Lack of instas <--this plays a big part in 8v8 combat, since that will determine who wins if both groups see each other at the same time, also contributed to bad morale in alb
*No leaders <--not true, we have several good leaders
*No followers <--this is almost absolutely true.  Trying to get all the albs to do the same thing is the most horrendous experience in the game, next so Sidi raids at least.

We have the population and 50s to compete, they just don't care to.  They are all heartbroken, they'd rather PvE raid, craft, or level an alt to give them a supposedly better advantage. most alb groups lack skill and cohesive fighting experience.  We need all of these things to win.

Or we can do like the Alb servers that are winning and just outnumber our foes 2 or 3 to 1 every time.  But that's the cheap way.

[Durandana]

Well, Mali that gets back to us trying to form groups of our own to try to play together out there. Kinda hard to do that when we are all scattered to the 4 winds doing our own thing doesn't it?

[Malison]

Maybe we just need common goals?

[Amberryl]

about the whole leadership thing:
I think we have some great leaders.
I've also lead a few raids myself, some were very good, and some, if you havn't heard already, were where about 30 albs diliberatly disobeyed me and tried to fish 5 hibs out of that tower and all got killed over and over again.

I also agree that too many cooks spoil the broth. I've seen leaders compete with eachother about tactics and strategies. Sometimes its better to just follow other even if you know that they're wrong, (its a bad moral to follow in RL, but sometimes good in the game).

although competing strategies will yeild no good result, introducing strategies is always helpful. In a keep raid, something as simple as saying "they're repairing, we need a pbaoer on the doors," or a "need a sorc to cast amnesia into lord room after 2nd door goes down," is a good way help out without interfering.

I keep repeating myself when I say I've seen albs do really well when working as a team, but it bears repeating...

[Sodom]

"Scattered to the 4 winds" indeed.

We could try to make a guild schedule, and post it to the frontpage - Monday nights is MLF night, Tuesday night is Alb twinks, Wednesday night is Alb RvR, Thursday night is Bors, etc.

Of course, this doesn't help me, seeing as I play post 11pm EST, but still

[Durandana]

I agree that we have enough people in the realm that can and try to lead. That is not the problem.

The problem is when people try to lead on this server all the cry-babies and people that are jealous come out and seem to do whatever it takes to make said leaders job so frustrating that they just log and eventually don't even try anymore.

When we go to RvR we need to pick one person in the chat as leader and follow them. The people need to do what that person says even if they don't agree 100%.

Good example of Albs being stupid follows...

yesterday while dead at M1 i decide to not release and just play dead spy for the chat group. Hibs was out with their 4 group zergarama. Mids try to hit them once with smaller numbers. Hibs win. The whole time this is going on i am giving the info to chat group.

Albs hit the Hibs from Alb side before the Hibs are fully ready. Tough fight starts. Then 1 Mid group hits Hibs from behind and helps eliminate them. Mids stay on Hib side. It is repeatedly said on chat thats its 1 group and they are right in front of doors.

The call to charge is given. Guess what happens? Instead of charging as 1 force the Albs go through the doors in 1's and 2's and the whole army is destroyed by 1 group.

All they had to dio was charge when they was told to and there probabaly would have only been a couple deaths for the Albs.

I see this kinda crap out there every day LOL

[Bolldar Bloodaxe]

I would disagree that Albions are worse players  than Mids or Hibs, I think thats a kind of ridiculous assumption and overall Albion has considerably more 50s than any realm though Iseult I think is an exception. Accross all servers Albion only tends to do well where they have a big advantage in numbers and on average Albion has about 30% more 50s and about 30% less Realm points according to the Camelot Seer.

Instas, poor CC, inferior tanks (vs Mids) inferior nuker vs both other realms all contribute to our general situation. Better CC and instas have made the other realms look more organised and cohesive than Albion, personally I think Midgard is the kiddies realm, its the easiest and its where most young kids gravitate too. I know my son does.

Its true to say we have a moral problem, on Iseult we are generally outnumbered and tend to get cleaned up often on even fights due to  the aformentioned factors. True sometimes we cock up but then so do they, Albion doesn't own the patent on stupid play.

An example of why we do poorly in seige situations is that the primary nuker (bolt classes in Middie and Hib) both have there GT AOE on there primary bolt line, ie would be like a fire wizard having GTAOE as well. Hence for us to do a lot of GTAOE is a rarity but in those situations both defence and offence we cop a lot of it, they rarely do. Healer/mezzers is a big bonus in Midgard also as it means both healing and mezzing is plentiful and the same situation occurs in Hibernia. Versatility means they tend to have backups for primary talents they need, we are usualy lucky to have one CCer or healer and spares are a rarity.

Class imbalance plays a big part and i think that it is unfortunate that Albion classes generally have been more specialised which should make them more powerful in there chosen feild but without the power advantage to compete with there more versatile brethren in other realm.

On the subject of PLing I know that its not comulsory in our guild but it certainly doesnt hurt to do it if your farming for cash and it doesnt make the group dangerous.  Having said that I have generally found most, but not all people will do that if the occasion is right, I know I and many of the other posters here do.

[Rosslyn]

/agrees w/ Bolldar.

:confused:

did I just type that?

[shaygod]

We could try to make a guild schedule, and post it to the frontpage - Monday nights is MLF night, Tuesday night is Alb twinks, Wednesday night is Alb RvR, Thursday night is Bors, etc.

Of course, this doesn't help me, seeing as I play post 11pm EST, but still

I, personally, like the idea of a guild schedule.  It would be nice to have an idea -- on any given night -- where the best chance is to find everybody else.

[Amberryl]

well my schedual until school ends is the following:
on weekdays I usually only play like 30 minutes or so.
on weekends, depending on RL, I'm either on all day and take the night off with friends, or out all day and spend the night on DAoC

I think if we do something like weekends are main server days (iseult) so we can save all the days we play on bedevere, bors, or MLF for weekdays, just so that on weekends when most people (albs, mids, and hibs) come on to RvR, we can mebbe form a guild group so we have some form of an overmind in the zerg.

(Edited by Amberryl at 9:10 pm on May 14, 2003)

[Zutroy]

penguins are cool

[Gueuze]

Nerf zerkers.

[Amberryl]

1.62 gueuze

about some kind of schedual: i think it's a great idea, but i dont know if it would have much more sucess then what we do now...i know the problem for me is that i dont have consistant play times. untill school gets out im pretty much forced to just play at random random times i have nothing more important to do...good thing i dont actually do school work or any of that junk or i wouldnt be able to play at all