Albion Crafter Boycott

[Mattee]

What I wrote is how I feel and it is my right to feel that way. I find the post to be more than just informative. It is a perssuasive essay on getting people to boycott a guild. The problem is that I haven't heard the whole story, meaning both sides. I don't feel justified in making a choice between picking my friends or backing an alliance the guild I belong to is in.  

Yes, people should know about poor tactics in the game, but there are ways less subjective then this post.

[Zanrath]

I really see both sides of this issue.  I think it is crappy that the buyer wants to walk away.  But the other hand it was also crappy that the crafter continued to try and make the item (charging the customer) with getting the go ahead from the buyer.  If we are going to warn others about the buyer, then the same should be said for the crafter as well.  Let people know that the crafter may try and make more then you wanted and charge you for it.  

All of this could have been avoided if the crafter stuck to what the buyer paid for and requested more money up front for further attempts.

The bottom line is we only have one person's side of the story.  That side is "how they remember" things taking place.  To truely be fair both sides would have to tell how they remember things taking place.  I would bet that the two stories would be very differant and what really happen would be someplace in the middle.

[Zutroy]

The way Penguins used to do it made the most sense to me. The customer pays for say 10 tries and then they recieve the crafted item (no matter what qual) after each attempt. They then have the option to sell the weapon back to the vender to recoup some of their loss, or they can keep it in case the attempts don't yeild the % they're looking for.

Now obviously this increases the price per attempt (if you don't assume sell back), but at least the customer wouldn't feel like they paid all that money for nothing.

[Zutroy]

You know why the slot machine makes you put in the money before you pull the handle?

My point being, people gamble when they decide they want to craft on consignment. Not getting the money up front is the biggest mistake you can make because if they lose, more often than not you're the one that gets screwed.

[Kirin]

I hear Balkazar is relaiable althought the night we got together to do desas SCed leather, he lded fater 5 mins and never came back.. i havent seen him since.. myabe he really lded, maybe he didnt feel like doing it.. its been 2 weeks now and he hasnt contatced me.. not a flame, just a note to guldies

[Glanowyn]

A few points:

1) I do accept responsibility for the miscommunication, though I do not 100% of the responsibility.

2) None of the 99% qual swords that I kept for resale were billed to the customer. The materials were paid for out of my own money.That means they we're 100% my swords and the customer got a free retry. Despite that, I was willing to allow the profits that I made off them to go towards credit for the tab.

3) I have Bruiant a very nice way of resolving this issue. The net cost to him (after all my fuzzy math) would only be 1 respec stone. The 1 respec stone would equal the 4+ plat. In return, he would take home a 99% sword made paid for from his initial 20 retries. With all the dragon raids that go on, 1 respec stone definately does not = 4 plat anymore. But I gave him that option. And he said no. To him it was MP or nothing.

4) Bruiant has no intention of paying me until he gets an MP. In response, I have no intention on losing more money on a consignment that I have yet to make yet and that the customer, may or may not be able to pay.

5) My post is 100% a persuasive essay, of that I do not deny. I feel very passionate about this topic and wish to fully underscore the weight of the situation. This post was made to both inform you all of a situation and to gain support. However, each person here is their own person. How you choose to proceed is our own decision, which, as Mattee pointed out, everyone is entitled to.

[Rosslyn]

Can I have a MP hammer or mace plz?

[Glanowyn]

On that note, I do have a 99% needle mace in stock :p

[Mattee]

Heh, whatever I had to say just ignore. It doesn't even involve me. I have no intentions of buying, crafting, selling items in the near future. I only thought hearing one side of the story made the judgement biased. I guess the way I presented my case seemed unclear and I miscommunicated my point of view...

[Bolldar Bloodaxe]

The total cost so far to this guy is from what I understand 5 plat, since you say he owes you 4 plat not including the 1 plat for the original 20 tries. That seems an inordinately expensive item. I paid 3 plat for a MP polearm from Penguins who thought she had got very unlucky to take so many tries. To proceed into these kind of amounts without the ok of the buyer after only discussing 1 plat would seem to be fraught with peril as very few people would possess that kind of money.

Have they changed the odds on these?? As i understand they were 1 in 50 chance but I get impression they are often taking more than 50 goes these days while i know people who have got them in under 10 in the past.

My understanding of the original post is this  guy hasn't actually refused to pay, just wishes to pay when the item he asked for is produced. Given his perceptions of what he asked for and what he got, he probably thinks he has been wronged as much as Glanowyn does. This whole situation seems rife with miscommunication and too many assumptions on both sides. Prob the best lesson is that MP items are not worth it for what little extra they give you, I forget the odds but 99% items are far far easier to make and give you not that many fewer imbue points and you can make  them sufficiently cheaply to actually have some spares. And if you order 99% you usually wind up with some 100% items cos Mythics stress detector doesn't notice the crafter trying to make the MP item

Im not sure I think the spec stone is an equitable arrangement nor something that should be used as an item of currency, but some sort of arrangement should be come to without maligning a whole guild of innocent people when especially when from the buyers point of view he has been equally wronged. I know when Penguins made mine we discussed what I could afford in case of mishap and he knew my monetary limits, thats something that probably should always be discussed before hand.

Best of luck resolving this, discussing it with each other or trying to again might prove your most fruitful avenue.

[Zutroy]

Just ignore my previous comments. It was late, I was in a bad mood and I couldn't sleep so I just wrote down the first thing that popped in my head.

Obviously I'm not a crafter nor do I ever have any desire to be one (hence why I quit SCing). Seems like more trouble than its worth and I'd rather be out there cracking mid & hib skulls than argueing with some cheapskate over the price of a sword.

[Gueuze]

I think the primo lesson here is to make sure your crafting terms are clear to begin with.

[Noreen]

from my experiences crafting, customers are generally a little less intelligent than carpet lint.  i try to repeat prices 3 or 4 times and ask for agreement / disagreement to my questions repeatedly. Also I update them every few retries if they are going for a mp.  I dont try for mp's without $ up front and a clear understanding of what the RNG is and how much remakes cost.  Sorry to hear you're out all that $.  Bruiant's on my alchemy / fletching boycott list now along with no mercy

[Mchagen]

It's for the very reason Noreen mentioned above that I don't ask for higher end quality items.  I just bag them when I see someone advertise "99% qua such and such for sale," over /as, /gu, /chat, /b...  

I know how hard crafting is, that's why I stopped at 500 fletching, 500 ac, and my bro at 800 wc.  I seriously think crafting is a joke and a way for mythic to prolong spending actual money to continue playing this game for longer time periods.  

[Bolldar Bloodaxe]

I think customers not knowing the implications of crafting are not unintelligent at all (know your speaking half in jest Noreen(I think )). They are simply uninformed if they don't craft, and that doesn't make them dummies. Crafters should realise that those who dont craft will need to be educated as to the costs and expected outcomes and the expectation that they will just know is not a valid nor sensibile one. Ive dealt with you Noreen and you do take the time to let the person know what is going on, that is what crafters should do.