What I learned from the debates

[Sodom]

They're the category numbers assigned by Apu, the guy that runs the KwikiMart.

(edit: tuns? Runs!)

(Edited by Sodom at 6:35 am on Oct. 7, 2004)

[Caohmin]

lol

[Bolldar Bloodaxe]

Actually all bar the first point are directly to do with the current president since they all involved members of the cabinet he chose and whom advise him. Or did you miss Cheney and Rumsfeilds names?

[Rosslyn]

sure, but last time I checked they're different people, each responsible for themselves, not to mention the points discuss work they did in situations and times that are quite obviously different than what we're experiencing now, that's all.  

It just seems like a stretch to resort to criticizing someone's Dad.

[Zutroy]

my dad can beat up your dad ross

[Rosslyn]

I'd hope so Z, my father died suddenly and unexpectedly a few years ago.

[Sodom]

Burn.

[Zutroy]

well that's gonna do it for me,

night folks

[Bolldar Bloodaxe]

PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004

EXPERIENCE AND EDUCATION

Law Enforcement:
I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under
the influence of alcohol. I pleaded guilty, paid a fine, and had
my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving
record has been "lost" and is not available.

Military:
I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused
to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use.
By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid
combat duty in Vietnam.

College:
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was
a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:

I ran for U.S. Congress and lost.

I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas in 1975.
I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas.
The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal
that took land using taxpayer money.

With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry
(including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies,
making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my
tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden
city in America.

I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of
billions in borrowed money.

I set the record for the most executions by any governor in
American history.

With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my
father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President
after losing by over 500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:

I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with
a criminal record.

I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of
*over one billion dollars per week*.

I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S.
Treasury.

I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S.
history.

I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in
any 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month
period.

I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history
of the U.S. stock market.

In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their
jobs and that trend continues every month.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any
administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire,"
Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

I set the record for most campaign fundraising trips by a U.S.
President.

I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving
the most corporate campaign donations.

One of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest
corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History, Enron.

My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys
to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my
election decision.

I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against
investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent
investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent
investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and
refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry
was revealed.

I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be
awarded government contracts.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than
any President in U.S. history.

I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest
bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.

I've broken more international treaties than any President in
U.S. history.

I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United
Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.

I refused to allow inspector's access to U.S. "prisoners of war"
detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva
Convention.

I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations
election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).

I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any
President since the advent of television.

I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year
period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided
over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade
Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most
hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in
world history.

I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to
simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people),
shattering the record for protests against any person in the
history of mankind.

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked,
preemptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign
nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the
majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community. I have cut
health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty
benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in wartime.

In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for
attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans
(71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and
security.

I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster,"
a WMD.

I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden
to justice.

During the Iraq War and Occupation thousands of American troops
were injured and killed. I did not have the time to attend any of
the funerals for our fallen soldiers but I did have the time to
attend more than 43 fundraising events of the Republican party.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my
father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and
my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for
public view.

All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President,
attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and
unavailable for public review.

Got this sent to me, I agree with the vast majority of it but there are a few things i find a little doubtful ie

America has breached the Geneva convention many more times than just once, at least 35 different counts last time i heard.

America has waged a number of wars of agression though i guess they were just out and out agression not pre emptive strikes as such.

I dont think the US was removed from the UN human rights council though they have certainly breached human rights.

Im not sure George presided over the biggest stock market crash either, I would have thought that would have been the great depression though I could be wrong since I dont follow the stock markets.
 

[Siddhartha]

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/09/08_402.html

home land secure?

[Zutroy]

hey sidd, I think you missed this article:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/schools_threat_041007-1.html

[Rosslyn]

wow, just... wow.

Aside from being rife with inaccuracies, half-truths, and the constant inclusion of highly-disputable opinion into a piece represented as if it were a collection of factual events and statistics, this piece (and I use the term on more than one level) at least provides some comedic relief when it's not just plain offensive.  

Once again, it's fun to see someone resort to events outside of Bush's control (let alone several outside of his tenure) that were very arguably brought on by other administrations as the basis of this sort of attack.  This can go on ad nauseum.  "Bush is the devil!"  "98.47363 % of people polled around the world burn him in effigy daily!"  "Something bad happened to someone my friend knows while he was President/Governor/in school/alive at all, so it's his fault!"

First, whenever citing "statistics", it would be good form to have a believable source to reference.  I'm pretty sure I haven't seen most of these "world records" in the Guinness book, let alone anywhere else.  As of right now, all I have to go on is that "someone" sent this to you.

Secondly, there are many stretches of the truth here (call it opinion if you like) that render many of the statements either false or at the very least highly misleading and debatable.  Things like the implication of special treatment with regard to the Texas Rangers (it is the overwhelming majority of sports teams that are given public land for stadiums.  Most of these are also given massive public funding for the actual construction as well.  GWB is definitely not a special case in this instance).  Things like "executions by any governor" when in fact a governor neither executes a person nor sentences them to death.  Oddly enough, a governor also isn't the person who passes the laws authorizing capital punishment.  Things like bankruptcies, foreclosures, and stock market swings that were well on their way to becoming reality before he took office.  Things like implying that the Governor of Florida somehow has the ability to decide the presidential election, or that the Supreme Court is comprised of justices appointed by the first President Bush. (news flash here:  There have been several US presidential elections in which the winning candidate actually had a lower total of popular votes than his opponent.  Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your point of view), that's EXACTLY how the system is built.  It's not a popular vote across the country, but instead it's a popular vote in each state for that state's electoral votes.  I don't mean to lecture on this simple topic, but evidently there is some level of confusion here.  If I'm victorious by 1 vote in a state w/ 6 electoral votes, and you win by 7,000,000 votes in a state w/ 5 electoral votes, I'm actually winning the "election", while you're winning the "popular vote".  Also, the last time I looked this up, neither Ken Lay, Dick Cheney, nor anyone with the surname Bush had a hand in enacting this process.  It's actually been around for a little while.  

Besides, it's probably a good thing.  This way Al Gore has more time to work on inventing things like the internet.  

[Axecleaver]

I enjoyed seeing a Mother Jones reference -- been a while since I read that. I think we need some links to the Economist to balance it out.

But it was actually a pretty factual piece that demonstrates budget priorities, nice link.

[Rosslyn]

Just in case it's not clear, my last rambling diatribe was in response to Bolldar's most recent post, not the next two by Sidd or Z.  Nerf slow typing!

[Lifesbane]

"(news flash here:  There have been several US presidential elections in which the winning candidate actually had a lower total of popular votes than his opponent.  Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your point of view), that's EXACTLY how the system is built.  It's not a popular vote across the country, but instead it's a popular vote in each state for that state's electoral votes.  I don't mean to lecture on this simple topic, but evidently there is some level of confusion here.  If I'm victorious by 1 vote in a state w/ 6 electoral votes, and you win by 7,000,000 votes in a state w/ 5 electoral votes, I'm actually winning the "election"..."

this is one thing that find increadibly stupid, and it makes it hard for me to believe i live in a damocracy. how exactly are the people of this country being represented when the guy with the least votes gets in? how is ross' example fair representation? is there any real use for the electoral college, some vital purpose it surves? - if someone can tell me i'd love to know, no one has given me a good answer yet (maybe it was a good idea when we were riding horses, communication was slow and real-time information was imposible, but come on, shoot the crippled horse and lets get moving). In my oppinion, 1 person should equal 1 vote, i shouldnt vote on votes for the president, what i said when i went to the ballots speaks just fine for me.