Why Kerry just got my vote

[Axecleaver]

For the record, both Kerry and Dean oppose shipping white collar service jobs to India. But I like the inclusion of the traitor rhetoric.

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13381533

Outsourcing of hi-tech jobs to India, China, Russia, the Philippines, and elsewhere has become an issue which is being debated in the Democratic primaries and in the US Congress, with current Democratic frontrunner in the presidential race, Senator John Kerry, calling companies which outsource "Benedict Arnolds." The name refers to an American "traitor" who defected from the ranks of American revolutionaires to join the British colonists. Kerry was quoted by Contra Costa Times on the West Coast as denouncing the Bush Administration for "rewarding Benedict Arnold CEOs who move "profits and jobs overseas". Kerry had also introduced a bill in November that would require call centre operators to disclose their physical locations to consumers with the aim of discouraging the practice.

[Zutroy]

I thought this was kinda funny:

Howard Dean has told audiences that America needs a President "who doesn't think that big corporations who get tax cuts ought to be able to move their headquarters to Bermuda."

Why does a company need tax cuts when they're already illegally evading taxes by transfering funds to Bermuda? Wouldn't tax cuts actually discourage that practice?

And as for the shipping of jobs overseas, I think while it may be good for us in the short term, it's gonna hurt the economy over time. Artifically subsidizing private industry in order to keep jobs has never really worked - look at agriculture. We're paying billions in taxes to support agribusinesses to not grow stuff just so we can pay more for produce when we go to the grocery store. The result is alot of abuse in the system and the people who really need help (ie, family farmers) not getting their share.

I'm not saying I'm for the shipping of these jobs overseas, I just think we need to let the market play itself out a little more first. Already there's beginning to be a huge backlash against companies that ship their phone centers over there. I've heard the complaints first hand when I worked for Capital One doing customer satisfaction surveys a few years ago; people don't want to have to deal with a language barrier when they have financial problems to solve. Many are willing to and have cancelled their accounts over it.

[Rosslyn]

boy, if Mythic ever outsourced their CSR's to India there'd be hell to pay.  Hell, I tell you!

[Sodom]

I'll be curious to see what happens to my employer if such measures are passed by the incoming president - AOL not only has a huge callcenter in India, but they also outsource calls to 5 other companies with offices in India. And they're also currently in the process of building a development center out there: it's one thing to move phonemonkey jobs overseas, but software development?

[Rosslyn]

I guess they won't have to worry about running out of visas for people they sponsor.  

[Axecleaver]

I get a report once a week for my job, about business process outsourcing news. My employer is a huge outsourcer, they just love saving a few dollars here and there by shipping everything overseas. My bosses make two or three trips to India a year.

Not only are software development jobs going, the Indian companies are targetting all white collar jobs. Insurance, banking, finance, accounting. It sounds very nice to say, just let free market take its course. But the reality is that once the jobs leave, they cannot come back. The damage done to the evolution of the industry is irreversible.

I'll give you an example where I work. We hire experienced (5-10 years) software architects and engineers here, and we also augment that with Indian labor that we fly over to America for a year at a time. For entry level positions, they are all staffed in India.

Five years from now, my company will contain exactly 0 people with 5 years of software development experience. Where are those people going to be? That's right -- in India, where we created the experts. This creates a shortage of experienced people and so you'd have no choice but to go to India.

Five years will be too late.

[Sodom]

Sad thing is that companies have a legal responsibility to what's best for their shareholders, which means maximizing profits. Companies won't start re-patriating jobs until laws are passed to make it financially un-viable.

[Axecleaver]

You could also say that they have a responsibility to build expertise within the company so they don't find themselves without any talent in 5 years. It's taking a longer view of what shareholder interest means. They're not doing that. A small profit today in exchange for total systemic failure and bankruptcy in several years does not sound so smart to me.

After they create all the foreign labor markets, what is to stop an Indian entrepreneur from going into business and taking the contracts themselves? They have all the labor and business intelligence. You think they give a fuck about an NDA/noncompete? See how far that gets an American company in an Indian court.

[Zutroy]

So I'm confused about your company axe. Are they actually outsourcing your IT development to an indian company? or are they just hiring people from india to work directly for your company?

[Axecleaver]

Some projects they outsource completely. Most projects, they hire an Indian company and have them ship some Indians to America. They don't need green cards to work here because they're getting paid in Indian rupees. Their company pays for their travel expenses and they work onsite in America.

It's quasilegal. The money still flows out of the country, but our hotel/restaurants/infrastructre recaptures a portion of the money while they work here. The biggest problem is that they take American jobs and fill it with someone who does not pay income tax in the US.

For every outsourced project, some % of it is people who live and work in India, some % is Indians who work in Virginia but get paid by a company in India, and some % is Americans who work in Virginia. The entry level jobs go 100% to India. Senior managers (that's me) are here, some junior level managers are in India.