Vengeance

Compare a sorc to a healer.
Healer can aoe stun yes, but they can't so shiet with dmg output.

What, your a healer and you aoe stun a full group, and you think the healer is going to attack you with his 1h hammer with no style's?? it'll take forever to kill a tank.

Sorcerer has CC (yes they have cloth but why are you complaning?? they have dmg output) they can put out dmg (not like a healer that can do crap with dmg output).

So i think it's pretty fair between those 2.

HEaler VS SOrc?
Nor lets face it, a solo sorc cant kill a whole grp either ;P..
The healer.. is a 100% support character
the Sorc.. is a 50%
he healer has mezzes (no good if no one is around to kill what he mezzes), and heals (no good if theres no one to heal)
The Sorc.. has dots, DDs, a pet, debuffs and mezzes..

the healer has no dmg output whatsoever, ive talked to people who play 40ish healrs and they say they cant tank a blue.. the sorc can nuke the crap outta something, and still have his pet to do dmg along the way..
the only noticeable + id give to healers is that they have chain and they have insta heals for backup..

and just for the record i know its not important, but healers can use 2hs..

The sorc is a damn good class.. they have a healthy mix of everything, and solo they can do really well.. the big problem with the sorc is in grps they pull alot of aggro.. when a grp pulls 3 purps and doesent kill them fast enough, the sorc will usually get aggro from his mezzes.. Sorcs are well know for dying ;P.
which is why i guess there arent many around ;P

(Edited by Kirin at 4:45 pm on Jan. 7, 2003)

omg you're worse than the people on vn boards /falls on sword ;)

sorc's are uber

just all the people who play them are noobs

hehe, people often forget that, besides the chain armor, healers aren't on the same HP table as sorcs, and they do a fair amount of melee damage (esp. w/ the 2-hand weapons).  It's not too hard to kill a mob when you can start off w/ a casted mez, then stun it later.  Add in the fact that healers can buff too, and I don't see how they bitch.  I think the results in the game show which character is the most viable (and so arguably the better character).  

hehe, about how long does it take a zerker to go through a sorc?

The issue is that it takes 10x longer to kill a healer than a sorcerer. And that healer can instamezz/instastun anyone who gets all up in his face. The issue is not how much damage these characters can do.

That's like saying paladins don't suck because they can healchant. It's totally irrelevant in RvR.

Yeah, but end chant is uberrific.

On a lighter note, this cracked me up.  Some of you may have seen this already, but it's definitely worth a look.  

http://www.dhmo.org/

WTF people... sorcs are pretty damn hard... you shouldn't even talk about one without playing one first...

QuoteQuote: from Lifesbane on 7:42 pm on Jan. 5, 2003
hehe, about how long does it take a zerker to go through a sorc?

Zerkers, along with most things with a sword, kill me in one hit. k, thnx

(Edited by Amberryl at 9:04 pm on Jan. 5, 2003)

Oh, you guys also forgot to mention a couple of things...

• just because a sorc has an uber long mezz doesnt mean it always hits
• Sorcs can't do sh*t without a pet
• A tank will get just as much exp soloing a blue as a sorc will soloing an orange. The pet leeches all the exp, depending on how much damage it takes, how much damage it does, and how much damage the sorc does. And you can't just send the pet in to take the aggro and just nuke it to death. You always have to keep your damage below how much damage the pet does, otherwise you'll get aggro and die in 2 hits. If you're lucky, you can quickcast amnesia and pray for it to hit, (usually it doesn't and its AoE so it usually just causes more aggro from things around the area)

If you guys havn't gotten the hint already, just shut up now because you obviously have no clue about sorcs.

The only reason you dont hear sorcs complain a lot is because they are sick of hearing everyone else complain about their characters (cough scouts cough)

First of all, it takes my zerker 2 hits, not 1, to kill most casters. Reason of course being that you get a personal BT and that negates my first Doublefrost style (and costs me some endurance too!).

Secondly, a friend of a friend of a cousin's 8 year old niece solo'd an ENTIRE group of hibs with his sorc once, so obviously you have no skillz if you can't accomplish the same thing.

Finally, I refer you to this link (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sarcasm)

Ok Amb er,

So let me get this straight, Scouts have no reason to complain?  Sure we can solo XP... Thats not where our problems are.

We are not wanted in groups so we solo our entire careers to get to the end game and then find out that we cant even hit the enemy anymore. If its not BT'd/ Evaded/blocked then it will miss completely. If it does hit the target the damage is completely lame because everybody and their mother has maxed resists. If you want logs i will take some next time i decide to frustrate myself with RvR.

Yes Sorcerers have their problems and i wish they would be fixed, They should have insta cast Mezz like the other realms for starters

not to re-open the can of worms that is the "are scouts actually lame" debate, but just FYI when I rvr w/ my armsman, I too hit BT, I too get evaded, I too get blocked and parried.  I also get mezzed, stunned, DoT'd, and killed by the occasional uber assassin.  I don't have camo, stealth, or Truesight.  I actually have to chase someone down (tough w/ zero speed) to do ANY damage to them, and it's tough to do decent damage when you've used your end running someone down.  hehe, I'll leave it up to your deductive powers to figure out why you don't see me playing my arms very often.  :)

"hehe, I'll leave it up to your deductive powers to figure out why you don't see me playing my arms very often"

Hmm, because you're not very good at it?

It appears that Caoh is smarter than he looks!

I think the biggest gripe archers have now is that our bow damage over time is fairly poor considering how long it takes to fire a shot and have it actually hit (not counting BT, blocks or evades). Other classes with access to high delay weapons (polearms, 2handed and spears) have several styles to give them to-hit bonuses but archers do not. This results in higher than average miss rates when compared to any other physical damage dealer.

Caoh:
Was Time Bandits that really weird movie with all the midgets? It ended with like the kid's parents blowing themselves up, right?

amber, j00 lucky i didnt see this post before school today or you'd have fealt my wrath hehe...there would have been so meny "hippy" and "italian" jokes it'd made you cry ;)

now amber, you've never played a scout before, so dont critisize us. we dont complain because "we used to be uber and are just whineing"...its because when i play my character i think he must be a small blind retarted child with all the misses/fumbles. Ill let you play my scout in rvr sometime amber so you can see how uber we are.

i played amber's sorc for a little while the other day, and i gotta say it sucked...the pets can be hard to find and cant hold agro, ect ect. however, it probably also has a lot to do with my lack of familiarity with the class...and all i did was solo a few ellylls, so it wasnt a braud experience.

i think the thing we should focus on is ALBION's gimpyness...no real need to break it down into the individual classes guys ;)

Zut: Yep, that's it. It was done by the Monty Python troupe (Terry Gilliam) and is one of my favorites. I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys the Python brand of humor.

Not gonna step into this debate though. It's like two pigs in a pen arguing who smells the worst. :)

QuoteIt's like two pigs in a pen arguing who smells the worst.

Two out of three pigs agree, Kirin's Mom smells the worst.

PWND!

She cooks a mean breakfast, though.

(Edited by Caohmin at 9:02 am on Jan. 7, 2003)

You hung around for breakfast?  Give her some space, man!

hahahahaha

I have both a healer and a sorcerer, and while not at hugely high level got some idea how they compare.

Sorcerers I have found since the advent of SI (the Drakoran caster pets are like a tanking uninteruptable wizard, wish i could take them elsewhere) and the modification to how pets heal themselves (they used to heal like a player) solo really well. They are great in groups if the group knows what it is doing too. Often that isnt the case and they die all too quickly.

Healers at low levels at least can solo yellows no problem with stuns mezs debuffs buffs etc and reasonable armour and a melee weapon. They also get speed, nuke is about the only thing they dont do.

However even assuming they dont solo well at higher levels so what?? They have so much else going for them that groups are always going to be relatively easy to find.

In RvR tho i think AOE stun is hugely powerful, especialy when the same character can mez as well. I do play a high level caster and survival time when you get hit by tanks is measured in nano seconds generally. You are also far more vunerable to stealthers, archers etc which can all one shot you.

I think sorcerers are great characters but i think they suffer by comparison with healers who are also difficult to pick out of the pack while Albion casters stand out.

Ive never quite understood why scouts complain of being gimped as much as they do. I agree Ablion as a whole is pretty gimped but scouts and infilt still are Albions top RvRers are they not??

Just a question, I dont see him any more but Protype (ranger) used to one shot me as my wizard contiunously. He would shoot me for between 980 and 1.2K. Just for your info I never had that many HPs so they were always 1 shot deaths. Since i could not nuke him for a fraction of that it was pretty frustrating to say the least. But my question is are rangers a lot better than scouts? I know scouts have longer range but i have seen this same guys duel Noreen and loose less than a quarter of his health in melee and kill an armsmen in melee but boy can he shoot. I have a 24 scout and he seems to RvR fine but I doubt that is too  much of a clue in terms of relative performance.

Rangers are better than Scouts.... If i could transfer my Ranger from Bors to Iseult and disguise him as a Scout and still play him in Albion i would do it.

They have their get away sprint spell which allows them to run and then stealth and get away unless there is an assasin hunting them too.

They have self cast buffs. The buffs are great because they dont have to worry about all their buffs going down if the healer dies.

They have Duel weild which makes shield less effective. The shield will block 1 attack but not both. This allows them to beat Scouts in melee even if the Scout has high shield. Yes the Scout can slam but then the Ranger uses purge and slaughters them.

Those are the reasons i can see for Rangers being better than Scouts.

Oh the range advantage we get doesnt amount to jack squat. Not enough of a difference to even mention it.

the range difference is like 2 steps...

we cant hit anything with our bows and our melee is not worth having...to sum it up

Thanks Life & Durandana :)

(Edited by Bolldar Bloodaxe at 11:27 am on Jan. 8, 2003)

Casters are also a lot more survivable now with maxed melee resists. The other day Beelzebub had 4-6 tanks on him for over a minute and didn't die. Yes, three clerics, BoF, and Axebot's 28 guard blocks helped, but the resists are also a huge factor in survivability now.

I think the two classes should switch around. Rangers should get the longer ranger *hence the name rangers haha) and scouts should get speed, so they can actually "scout", hence the name scout = P

Casters more survivable? They still go down in nanoseconds. Only thing saving that guy was the blocking coupled with PBT and 3 clerics. The resists dont make much difference at all without all those things. Add to that that casters other than Ice wizards get no support like that. I think in my whole carreer as a Fire wizard i have been guarded once in RvR. Was nice but it just doesn't happen and isnt gonna happen to a sorcerer either.

(Edited by Bolldar Bloodaxe at 1:10 am on Jan. 11, 2003)

(Edited by Bolldar Bloodaxe at 1:12 am on Jan. 11, 2003)

Yeah, I've noticed that the only time i survive in melee is when I've got a couple of clerics spamming heals on me, and someone to come to my rescue.  or im fighting a caster. How often does that happen?

last night, I was wondering around that semi-new PvP dungeon. I walked right past a pair of midgards. I didn't even see them till I turned around and noticed a norseman running towards me.  I was like ok, crap.  I sic'd my pet on his friend who was hanging back and obviously a caster.  He came for me, I rooted him, and he aggrod some orange con mob.  He fought the thing for a good 6 or so hits too!  i nuked his red wearing butt to death.  His friend is sitting there running around like a madman trying to get my pet to leave him alone.  I had to laugh.  I chased him down eventually, that took a while. I dotted him, then he finally turned to face me. Silly troll FINALLY decided to come bash me with his hammer. By then I had a quick cast lifetap (he hit me pretty hard) ready to finish him.

Funny thing was, he was a troll shaman. if he had just ran towards me and started meleeing me in the beginning, I'd probably have died.  I rarely live in melee.

Dodens is good for inexperienced RvR n00bs like that. Little axe stalked a full group of 50 hibs in there and killed two, got away clean. But only because they were n00b RR3s and 4s. (For hibs that's basically no RvR experience).

*looks down at his R3L4*

*feels abashed at his n00bness*

*runs away*

Heh don't worry, I've been playing since release and I'm only 4.4