Vengeance

Vengeance => public => Topic started by: Malison on Mar 19, 2003, 10:41 AM

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Malison on Mar 19, 2003, 10:41 AM
Or, if it's not already, it'll be on Pendragon within minutes:

=====================================

Dark Age of Camelot

Version 1.61a Test Release Notes

Wednesday, March 19, 2003

=====================================

Version 1.61a has two big additions to Dark Age of Camelot. The first is the "itemization" of all frontier zones. Now monsters killed in the frontiers will all drop loot. These zones have been itemized with the Unique Object Generator using new class specific templates. The second is a re-work of the way that statistic, hit point, and power points are "capped" on a character.

"CAP" CHANGES

We have a new system in place for stat, hit point, and power caps. Now, a player's realm rank level will affect the amount of stat bonuses a player can receive. Players who have no realm levels will see no change; players who have gained Realm levels and ranks will notice that their character is affected by buffs from items and spells more than before.

Starting with Realm Level one, the increased caps make dropped items with bonuses more useful by increasing the amount of bonus the item affects your character. As you go through the Battlegrounds and/or RvR, your caps will be greater than the bonus values on the items you find on monsters, making using dropped items worth much more consideration than before, when caps made it easy to max all primary stats, especially when using epic armor and buff spells.

NEW THINGS AND BUG FIXES

- Pressing Shift-LeftClick on your pet's name in the pet window will now create a hotbar icon that you can drag to your quickbar. Pressing this new hotkey will select your pet. (Note: The rest of the buttons/commands on the pet window could already be made into hotkeys by Shift-LeftClicking on them).

- The mousewheel will now scroll the chat buffers and the quickbar when your mouse cursor is hovering over them.

- If another player traded 10 items with you, the 10th item would incorrectly show up in your trade window on later trades. This has been fixed.

- Pressing TAB to toggle the interface will now hide/restore all windows correctly. Previously, some windows (such as the compass) would not be hidden, and other windows (the Command Window) would not reappear after you toggled the interface back on.

- There were many monster pathing issues in Avalon City. These have been fixed.

- All frontier zones have been itemized using the Unique Object Generator system. All monsters killed in all frontier zones will now drop loot.

CLASSIC CAMELOT WORLD NOTES

Unique Item Generator Notes

- "Unique item" friar robes can now be dyed. This change should apply retroactively for any "unique" friar robes.

- Midgard chain items should no longer drop with +thrown.

- Items in the 1-10 level range will only use points on two bonus slots instead of being spread across all four. Items 11-20 will use points on three bonus slots. Items 21+ will use the normal four bonus slots.

- The variance on magic bonus has been removed. All Unique Object Generator items should drop with the proper magic bonus amount for that item's material level.

- The variance on item points has been removed. All Unique Object Generator items should drop with the total proper amount of item points for the monster's level.

- The quality ranges for common monster Unique Object Generator drops, drops from named monsters less than level 50, and drops from named monsters higher than level 50 have been narrowed. The base quality for these drops is now 89%, and can extend to 100% depending upon which category the monster falls into.

- Resists on items level 1-10 will be a little less common than before.

- Caster staves will no longer be class-restricted in the 1-6 level range.


General Notes

- We have added a horse route from Snowdonia Fortress to Humberton.

- The horse routes that go to Tir Urphost in Hibernia will take a different route now, this will bring you closer to Koalinth Caverns.


Hibernia Quests

- Broken Seal should now be able to be completed.


Realm V. Realm - Battlegrounds

- Fixed an issue in Murdaigean where the additional banner that would spawn when Albion controlled the keep would be a Midgard Banner.


Midgard Dungeons

- We fixed a problem with an arachite prelate attacking players with a root spell through the walls at the entrance of Spindelhalla.


Monster Notes

- Ibicus should no longer spawn behind a zone wall.

- The monsters that roam the area by Koalinth Caverns have moved to a new hunting ground.


Item Notes


- Frontier monsters are now itemized using new class specific random object generator templates.

- Bards Song now has dexterity instead of empathy.

- The Prismatic Hammer (Midgard) should now have the correct DPS and delay.

- The Runic Ember and the Frozen Soul-shatterer (Midgard) can now be equipped by Spiritmasters, Runemasters, and Bonedancers.

- The Cath Cloak (Hibernia) now has body resistance 6 instead of duplicate body resist entries.

- The Bloody Fang (Midgard) should now be the appropriate level.

- All dropped alchemy components are now marked as no sell. Note: these items did not previously have a sale value. They have been marked as no sell to prevent players from mistakenly selling them for 0 copper.

- The Malevolent Shield (Midgard) can now be equipped by Healers and Shamans.

- Gloves of Night (Hibernia) may now be salvaged.

- The second body resist entry on the Bracer of the Pious Defender (Albion) has been changed to energy.

- Wispy Rigid Orm Spine (Midgard) may now be salvaged.

- Particle effects were added to many of the weapons in Dartmoor, Cursed Forest and Raumarik.

SHROUDED ISLES WORLD NOTES


Albion Monsters

- Xanxicar in the Crystal Cave will no longer spam his stomping message. Also his defense has been lowered slightly.


Midgard

- Urlo the spellcraft merchant in Agerirhamn has moved from outside on the ledge to inside by his fellow merchants.

- Old Matriarch's healing has been toned down.


Items

- The magic bonuses on the Blackened Arcanium Crescent (Albion) have been modified to be more reaver appropriate. The magic bonuses are now: +flexible 4, +parry 4, +hitpoints 60, +piety 15.

- The Light Walker's Blade (Hibernia) should now have a particle effect that fits correctly.

- The Obsidian Bastard Sword, Obsidian War Hammer, Obsidian Great Sword, and Obsidian Great Spiked Hammer (Midgard) should now increase the correct weapon skill.

- The Dread bone Great Hammer (Midgard) should now look like a hammer instead of an axe.

- The Nature's Blessed Cudgel (Hibernia) has a different proc attached that should not interfere with the spells of the weapon's intended class.

- The unique items from Durval (Albion) should now be set to the appropriate level when dropping. Note that this does not apply to objects received from Durval before this patch.

- Sys'sro's Robes of Substance (Albion) can now be dyed.

- Brungar's Slasher (Midgard) no longer increases the slash skill. In addition, the magic bonuses have been increased to the appropriate level for the item.

- The Seething Frostbound Axe (Midgard) has a different proc attached that should no longer interfere with the spells of the weapon's intended class.

- The drop rate for Old Matriarch (Midgard) is now set appropriately for the encounter.

- The Sacristan Coward's Belt (Albion) should now have the appropriate inventory icon.

- The Rift (Midgard) should now drop items as intended.

- Thuxra's Rooty Staff (Hibernia) has been renamed to Thuxra's Rooty Spear and Thuxra's Twiggy Staff has been renamed to Thuxra's Twiggy Spear.

- The second body resist entry on the Smiting Pendant (Albion) has been changed to spirit.

- The drop rate for the garran treant seedlings that are part of the Cuinn encounter in Hibernia have been adjusted to the appropriate level.

- The Gilded Songster's Vest, the Blessed One's Leggings, and the Songsung Leggings (Albion) can now be dyed by the appropriate dye type.

- Shadow Walker's Blade now has the correct particle effect.


Cooperative Server Notes

- The hard to target lifeless scouts at Caer Hurbury have been moved.

- Lowered the aggro range of the tormented knights guarding Caer Erasleigh.

- The Rock Giant Shamans inside Caer Benowyc should no longer cast at people outside the keep.

- Bledmeer Faste has had its difficulty increased.


TRADESKILL NOTES

- The higher level material stores (materials 6-10) now carry the essential tools for crafting.

If they actually up the caps on stats, it will just overpower those who already roll over us in the frontiers every night.  Those already buffbotted assassins I fall prey to on a daily basis just got even harder to kill.   give me a reason to want to go out there and realm-level  grind in the frontier!

Maybe  I should just quit while I'm ahead.

(Edited by Malison at 10:43 am on Mar. 19, 2003)

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Zutroy on Mar 19, 2003, 11:48 AM
The way I read it is, dropped items will now get a special +stat bonus for realm ranks that can take you over your cap (maybe only certain items?). I'm guessing the only real use for this new stuff would be on epic-type drops from caer sidi and the dragon. Everything else would have such low quality the tradeoff wouldn't be worth it. This was probably done to cater to the EQ crowd that loves camping spawns all day for drops.

By the way, where's my scout love?

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Zutroy on Mar 19, 2003, 12:53 PM
Well, this sort of sparked my interest on how the stat cap bonus works so I went over to the dev board to look it up, but apparently even Sanya doesn't know for sure. She said the devs would get back to her on it: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=47012013&replies=144

Anyone trying to test it on pendragon can't because Mythic totally screwed up the stat system. +con doesn't give any bonus to hits, +str/+dex don't affect weaponskill and +quick doesn't work: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=47015087&page=2

Here's the official bug thread, should be a fun read once more people get home and test it: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=47018647&replies=0

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Axecleaver on Mar 19, 2003, 02:13 PM
This looks totally screwed. The way I read it is, if you finished your set of playermade spellcrafted armor, you're fux0red and gimped now.

I can't tell if this is a boost or nerf to buffbots but I'm pretty sure it affects them somehow.

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Rosslyn on Mar 19, 2003, 02:48 PM
I read it as a potential boost to buffbots (or real live buffing classes actively played by a real person, if they're out there).  It seems like it could actually allow you to, say, max resists on SC'd items and plan on cleric/friar buffs to max your stats.  Or you could have items do the same.  Worst case, nothing changes.  Best case, you're able to squeeze out some more buffage.  How much more remains to be seen (once they fix the Pendragon issues, lol).
Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Kirin on Mar 19, 2003, 03:13 PM
does this mean that Echoic is gonna get even stronger?
sigh
Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Lifesbane on Mar 19, 2003, 05:54 PM
echoic now has 8k hit points, and can do 3k dmg per swing...have fun kids! lol
Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Zutroy on Mar 19, 2003, 09:19 PM
http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=47038080&replies=114

1) When does the cap raise? each realm level or each realm rank? Which Realm level/rank does it start?

Realm level, and starts with ream level 1.

2) Will dropped items now be better than spellcrafted ones? (Meaning, does this change somehow alter the intrinsic value of individual items?)

Quoting the designer: "Nope. No imbue values were changed on individual bonuses. The extra padding over the top [an item with over-your-cap bonuses] would take you apply to your character."

3) Is the new cap increase split between buffs and item bonuses or does it solely benefit one or the other?

Each cap increase is applied seperately to items (dropped and crafted), baseline buffs, and spec buffs.

4) A big concern is "the rich get richer" - Should people be concerned that RR10s will now be unstoppable due to their MIGHTY STRENGTH or whatever compared to a RR1?

Again quoting: "The additional points above the old caps aren't as effective as the
"undercapped" bonuses, but they still add in. Since imbue point values didn't change, the RR10 guy who makes a massive strength character to capitalize on his new caps will have sacrificed every single other bonus he
would have had before. As an example, sure the guy might do a ton of melee damage, but will die in two hits from a caster since he has no resistances.

[Sanya: In another question you said resistances weren't affected by this change. So... what do you mean by resistances?]

"To get MIGHTY STRENGTH you have to get a spellcrafter to imbue every piece of equipment you own to be all +strength. That means you will have +nothing to every other bonus. You won't be able to get MIGHTY
STRENGTH with dropped items, because they have a more even spread of bonuses."

5) Please clarify the Dropped item parts, does the Cap change when using dropped items only or SC items also count?

Quote: "There is no distinction between SC and dropped items. Also, a tuned spellcrafted suit of armor is still tuned. You could come up with other tuned suits that sacrifice a little of this or that for more of something or other, but the one you have will still work great."

My thinking is that many of you loaded up your armor with as much as it could handle - we're not changing SC to let you add MORE stuff to it. So, to my thinking, you're already wearing maxxed out spell crafted gear, and it will not lose any value. What am I missing?

7) Are resists affected by this too?

No.

8) Will the maximum possible value (hard cap of 300?) will change too?

Still being poked with a stick. Ask me again later in the patch.

9) Ream ability question: What about realm skills that raise stats. Aug Str, Aug Con etx. Will the new stat caps have any changes on how those work?

They are considered "base" bonuses, and were never capped to begin with. As we tune this new system, there may be changes.

10) If an item gives you +10 STR at RR0, will the same item give you say +15 STR at RR10?

No, you will need more items to meet the new personal caps. The per-item caps have not changed.

11) What is the intent behind this change? For what reason did Mythic decide to go with it?

To increase the value of high level buffs and dropped items in the world which were not being used due to the caps

**************************

Here's what happens if the answer to number 8 is "Yes" and stats get uncapped:

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=47027314&replies=4

2 base stat/realm level (possibly bugged)
.5 base buff/realm level
.3 spec buff/realm level
2 hp/realm level

Mr. R5 troll zerker's template. He chooses to competely ignore dex/quick in his SCing.

He can now potentially have:

100 (new bonus on armor) + 75 (old armor bonus) + 115 (base at creation) + 45 (leveling bonus) + 50 (red str buff) + 75 (red str/con buff) + 25 (red str buff bonus) + 15 (red str/con buff bonus) = 500 str

100 (new bonus on armor) + 75 (old armor bonus) + 80 (base at creation) + 23 (leveling bonus) + 50 (red con buff) + 75 (red str/con buff) + 25 (red con buff bonus) + 15 (red str/con buff bonus) = 443 con

**Each point of con above 60 is worth roughly 8 hps at level 50. So the bonus just from con gear is 3064 hps.**

200 (old hp armor bonus) + 100 (new hp armor bonus) = 300 + 3064 hps = 3364 hps

Would be interesting to find the formula for determining weaponskill in relation to your stats. I'm guessing the zerker in question here would have potentially 2500+ weaponskill if he had 50+16 spec points in his mainhand weapon type. With low dex/quick, I'm guessing his damage cap would be somewhere in the upper 1000, lower 2000 ranges.

Enjoy!

(Edited by Zutroy at 8:20 pm on Mar. 19, 2003)

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Zutroy on Mar 19, 2003, 09:32 PM
An R10 zerker would have: 640str,  583con, and 4584 hps. (Not sure if it's possible even with 5 point MP overcharges; this would just be his cap).

Edit - IDKFA

(Edited by Zutroy at 8:33 pm on Mar. 19, 2003)

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Sodom on Mar 20, 2003, 12:39 AM
Let me see if I've gotten this straight:

The old caps for items @ lvl 50 were +75 to each stat.

Now, for every realm level*, These caps are raised by some amount (lets say +5). Thus, a RR5 character can now gain +100 to each stat from items.

The designers will be coming back in the morning to clarify the issue, including details on whether the hard cap on stats of 300 is being raised.

Now, this sucks for folks who are viewing their MP SC'd armor as a lifetime investment. If you configured your gear to hit the +75 cap for your pertinent stats, at RR1 you are no longer hitting the cap, as it has been raised. It's up to the player whether they want to think short-term (+stats to the current cap) or long-term (+stats to hit the cap at RR10).

However, they've also stated that they are not increasing the imbue values for items. So for people like me who squeezed every last point out of their gear to cap their stats at +75, we now have to decide whether we want +75 to multiple stats, or say to hit the new cap with +100 to some stats and leave others at +50. The idea is to force greater diversity in SCing templates, rather than having every member of a class competing for the same drops, and never using others.

Firstly, this is a big fuck-you from Mythic to people who've already bought and SC'd their masterpiece armor. Get back to farming those plats, suckers!

(Conversely, its a gift LGM crafters - expect to see some repeat business from folks who thought they'd never need your services again.)

Secondly, it's another patch that helps Mythgard! How, you ask? Well, which realm has DF most often, and thus has the most abundant wealth to afford new gear to explot the new caps?

That's not even accounting for the similarly raised buff caps, which just make buffbots even more attractive.

Basically, for Sodom it's a little good, a little bad: I play one of the few classes that will be able to take advantage of the buffing changes without having to rely on a buffbot. However, with that in mind, I'd be wise to build a whole new SC'd suit to favor Con and Qui over Dex (which currently far exceeds the personal cap with stacked dex and dex/qui buffs).

(Edited by Sodom at 6:46 am on Mar. 20, 2003)

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Sodom on Mar 20, 2003, 12:46 AM
QuoteQuote: from Sodom on 12:39 am on Mar. 20, 2003
Now, for every realm level*

I've always read it the other way around, i.e. Rank 5 Level 8 (for example). However, if what Sanya posted is true:

Quote1) When does the cap raise? each realm level or each realm rank? Which Realm level/rank does it start?
Realm level, and starts with ream level 1.

Then either I've been reading it backwards all along, or the stat cap will raise 10 times for each Realm Rank. At even just +1 per Realm Level, that means the cap for a RR5 would be +125 for each stat - or a RR10 like Echoic would have a cap of +175 to each stat.

But imagine if it was, say, +5 per Realm Level? +500 to the cap at R10L10, yee-ha!

(Edited by Sodom at 4:10 am on Mar. 20, 2003)

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Sodom on Mar 20, 2003, 06:23 AM
Oh, this (http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=47062280&replies=3) is exactly what we f'kin need:

Quote[02:19:28] @@You say, "Unbuffed, I have 726 weaponskill, 997 hitpoints, 554 AF, 140 str, 134 con, 237 dex, 187 quick."
[02:23:05] @@You say, "Fully buffed, I have 1235 weaponskill, 1638 hitpoints, 561 AF, 313 str, 307 con, 418 dex, 288 quick."
[02:23:29] @@You say, "FOUR HUNDRED AND EIGHTEEN DEXTERITY?!!"
[02:23:35] @@<Luunn faints >

The best part is how this translates into an extra 200 damage on a perf against a R3L4 Druid (both characters fully buffed).

(Edited by Sodom at 6:27 am on Mar. 20, 2003)

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Lifesbane on Mar 20, 2003, 03:15 PM
god i hope they deside not to go live with any of this crap, this is gunna F-up class balence even more then it is
Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Zutroy on Mar 20, 2003, 06:09 PM
http://www.camelotherald.com/more/801.php

Not gonna quote the whole thing, you can read it yourself if you're interested. Nothing much really gets cleared up; still confusing as to how benefitial these bonuses actually are.

I think it's way too late for Mythic to be tinkering with the basic game mechanics like this. Either the stats bonuses need to be so negligable they make no difference (but then why did mythic waste all these weeks developing it?) or else there needs to be a total refund of SC costs and the buffbot issue needs to be resolved.

It's just a bad idea overall. The new system seems to give boosts to people that, through realm abilities, already have a significant advantage over their lower ranked opponents anyway.

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Axecleaver on Mar 21, 2003, 10:49 AM
100% right. If this goes live, the 8 man RR10 squads are going to take out 6 group zergs instead of just the 3 groups they do today. Sounds super-fun.
Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Malison on Mar 21, 2003, 12:25 PM
Hmm, the stat cap seems interesting though.  Supposedly, every point over the cap = 1/25 of a point.  So while echoic can get 500 points more strength than before, the effective str she would have would be only +20 more points of str.  Not to mention, how the hell can you get +500 to any stat?

Of course, the buffbots do see and advantage..slightly.  the extra stat bonus from buffs is RealmLevel * 2.  Again using echoic as an example, she could get 200 extra str from a buff, MAX, which would yield an effective str of +8.

The whole system seems pointless actually.  

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Zutroy on Mar 21, 2003, 01:08 PM
It never does state exactly that 1 point over cap = 1/25th real point. All it says is: 'If bonus stats from items go over (character level)*1.5, every 25 stat points provide a stat bonus.' Now what that means exactly is up for debate; it could mean it only counts it every 25 points but you get the full 25 point stat bonus. It could even mean you get the bonus to your weaponskill, defense, or speed every 25 points. For example, quickness gives you a .1 second reduction every 10 levels above 60. Maybe above your cap it would require 25 points to attain the same .1 second reduction (so each point of quick over cap would be: 10/25ths of a real point).

Luun's findings with the buffbot show that the diminishing returns on buffs aren't that steep though. He nearly doubled his weaponskill and gained 700 hits. The desparity between buffed and unbuffed people just got a whole lot larger; you'll see SB's with 2000+ hits doing zerker-like damage.

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Malison on Mar 21, 2003, 01:47 PM
Zutroy, that sounds more sane.  In my case, under 250, I get about 1 pt extra dot dmg per 10 intelligence.  250 is assumed to be my stat cap.  Now, if i should go over 250, I'll get 1 pt of dot dmg for every 25 points of intelligence.

so..if i had a 500 intelligence, my dots could do 10 more dmg a tick. yipee.

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Siddhartha on Mar 23, 2003, 11:54 AM
Why do they put crap like this in the game? Has anyone been clamoring for this?

I honestly think that Mythic is trying to make the class and character specs more complicated so that it makes it easier to say "Your class isn't gimped, rather, your character is ill-specced." Or maybe the developers are moving this way to escape accountability.

It is hard to devine the real reason. One can be sure though that the real reason for this patch is neither need nor desire from players.

Boggles the mind.

Siddhartha, Albion, Scout
-- Can I come back yet?

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Lifesbane on Mar 23, 2003, 10:48 PM
they must have left out the part of the notes where they fixed scouts...and coincidentally, they must also have forgotten to put that code into the patch...

...yea thats it, a simple mistake is all

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Sodom on Mar 24, 2003, 12:44 AM
Basically, you get "a bonus" for every 25 points you're above the 300 point stat cap. However, thanks to Mythic's developer-speak, we still have no quantifiable value associated with this "bonus."  Does going from 300 to 325 in a stat have the same statistical benefit as going from 299 to 300? And what does this bonus entail for each of the different stats? How much does one "bonus" point in Dex (for example) really get me?

From the Herald (http://www.camelotherald.com/more/801.php):
"Hitpoint cap changes: the new hitpoint cap from items is (character level)*4 + (realm level)*2"

This is actually intelligible - the whole 25 points/"bonus" doesn't even look to figure into it.

Sodom is R3L6, which would be 26 realm levels, so his new HP cap from items should be (50*4) + (26*2), or 252, 52 more hp than the old 200 flat cap.

Echoic, at R10L10, has a HP cap of 400 hp from items.

Even with the new capping code, +power is still pretty useless, giving a R10L10 cabalist with capped +pow the ability to cast his lvl 40 single-target DOT an extra two (2!) times. This is at a cost of 140 imbue points, or 4 99% qual pieces of AF51 cloth. (Note:Focus bonuses not calculated ;))

If these two stats are anything to judge, overcapping a stat provides a "bonus" with a value equivalent to the ability to take 2 extra hits from a lvl 50 in melee, or the ability cast 2 extra lvl 50 spells before emptying your power pool. If that's accurate, then overcapping 1 or 2 of your core stats might be viable if your character is a one-trick pony - until you realize that with current SCing, you can't overcap more than one stat (at R10L10).

So unless Mythic starts coding more utility 40+ (as per the 30 dex/str ring in their example) accessory drops into the game, it's utterly unlikely you'll be able to overcap more than 1 stat without leaving huge holes in your other stats.

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Sodom on Mar 24, 2003, 02:53 AM
And interesting suggestion on what "bonus" means can be found here (http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=47098335&replies=1), in a post by Medicman_Tristan (http://vnboards.ign.com/user.asp?usr=705783). The gist of post is that under the current system, every 10 stat points over 50 gives you a 1% gain. After 250, it's every 20 stat points to get a 1% gain. This 1% gain is likely what Mythic is referring to as the "bonus."

Under the old system,
50 str = 0% bonus
250 str = 20% bonus (200/10)
300 str = 22.5% bonus (200/10 + 50/20)
400 str = 22.5% bonus (200/10 + 50/20 + 0)

Under the new system,
50 str = 0% bonus
250 str = 20% bonus (200/10)
300 str = 22.5% bonus (200/10 + 50/20)
400 str = 26.5% bonus (200/10 + 50/20 + 100/25)

The 1% is computed in figuring out your "derived stats" like WeaponSkill, chance to Evade, etc. Of course, we don't know how much weight this "bonus" has in the final hit/dmg calculations, so I expect folks will have to do a bunch of live-testing before anyone can decide whether an extra 4% is worth it.

OT, but I think Mythic needs to "get off the pot" and release their combat mechanic as "OpenSource." Not the code that runs it in the game, but the formulas used. I want somebody to be able to write an app that lets you input your stats and the stats of a dummy opponent (or spell effecting your character), and let you run a batch of a thousand simulations to see how much changing these little numbers affect you in-game.

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Bolldar Bloodaxe on Mar 25, 2003, 08:48 PM
These changes would seem to add to the abundance of other features which already make it difficult for a realm to make a come back or compete with the other realms if they havent been winning in RvR.

This would seem true on an individual basis also since it gives those who already enjoy significant advantages from high RRs an ever greater advantage. (I think they are too great as they are and dont like being forced to RvR which this seems part of an ongoing campign on Mythics part to do)

As a SCer this would seem to add more uncertainty confusion and cost for everyone.

And most importantly they should be addressing class/realm imbalances not working to exacerbate them or make new ones.

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Sodom on Mar 25, 2003, 11:48 PM
I don't know: it seems to me that Mythic is trying to give folks more incentive to continue playing characters past 50. It used to be that RvR was something to do with a character once you'd "finished" leveling - now, with RAs and expanded caps, RvR is way to continue "leveling" your character beyond 50.

Of course, they could reinforce this feeling by giving your character more discreet and granular benefits each time you gain a realm level.

I'd like to see them diversify the RAs a bit more; adding more RAs, giving each class more than one unique RA, and making individual RAs cheaper (or giving away more RSPs per realm level). As it is, there is generally one "best" set of RAs to have for a given class - I'd like to see more specialist sets (or kits, or "presitge classes") of RAs developed for each class further allowing a character to be specialized for a specific role.

But that's just me, I'm a roleplaying game nerd, and love brainstorming new systems ;)

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Bolldar Bloodaxe on Mar 26, 2003, 01:11 AM
Im not a great fan of RvR in any case and wish RAs were gettable in some other fashion, but i see this discouraging people cos it makes it so much harder to compete with those who have been doing it for a long time. That already exists to some extent but some of the more extreme examples quoted seem pretty awful. :P I think Mythic is all Trolls
Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Zutroy on Mar 26, 2003, 03:15 AM
Hell, I'd be happy if mythic just gave an overall purpose to RvR that didn't involve RPs. Right now you only take keeps for DF (or to farm them for RPs) and relic raids always happen in the early morning when no one from the defending realm is around to participate in them. How about adding something to RvR that involves a little more effort to accomplish?

I'm somewhat depressed that 8 man beat squads are the pinnacle of this game. It doesn't matter who has the relics; all that matters is who's name is in the top 25 RPs listing for the week. We might as well be playing counter-strike. :P

(Edited by Zutroy at 2:16 am on Mar. 26, 2003)

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Axecleaver on Mar 26, 2003, 10:00 AM
I agree. I think that the concept of the couriers was really a step in the right direction. It just never caught on.

I'd like to see:

* 16 enter, 8 toons leave: 8 on 8 arena action similar to BGs
* Ways to address population imbalance and how it affect realm balance. Lots of ideas on this on the boards
* New 'missions' in RvR. Protect the VIP, Protect/Defend missions with defined rewards, full contact relay racing (mids would have a huge advantage with their CC and end regen...)

Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Lifesbane on Mar 26, 2003, 06:51 PM
wooo! sign me up for the cross-realm beauty pagent!
Title: patch 1.61A
Post by: Sodom on Mar 26, 2003, 11:17 PM
I just wanna be able to load seige weapons with characters as ammo. Is that so freaking hard? I wanna toss tanks into defended keeps! Why should Infils and Minstrels have all the fun?