This is the speech I give to prospective members.
--
Vengeance has only one hard and fast rule: Be Nice.
"Be Nice" has a surprisingly large number of facets in a game like DaoC.
We respect our enemies. We never jump on their corpses or laugh. We bow, salute, wave, or (most appropriate for the chicks) kiss. Use your best judgement and behave responsibly when killing our fellow players. If you wish to disrespect a player who disrespected you, the most effective way to do this is to kill them and ignore their corpse. Repeatedly.
We conduct ourselves politely in guild chat, group chat, and most especially alliance chat. We do not curse or berate other players for playing a situation badly. We train, we discuss, but we don't criticize. If you feel the need to rant, use private tells to your best online friends, or find me or an officer.
We share mob camps when possible and work to accomodate our realm mates whenever we can. We go out of our way to rezz the fallen or help with a quest.
If you are mistreated by a realmmate, bring it to the attention of Axe or an officer. We will discuss the problem with their guildmaster.
Vengeance respects the time of our players. We never make demands on peoples' time. If someone needs to log, we don't make them feel guilty for leaving a good xp group. I may post a date and time for a relic raid, but I will never be upset with someone for not making it. This is a game, and "obligation" and "fun" rarely coexist peacefully together.
We never ask for powerlevelling. We don't beg for money or gear or XP in guildchat. All of these things may be offered to you in the course of our time together, but never impose yourself on the time of another player. It's all about respect.
Finally, Vengeance is not for everyone. We have had prominent members of our community leave the guild and remain on good terms after our separation. Redblade, Dieter, and Viconia are all former Vengeance players who we still work with frequently. If you ever decide to leave the guild, I ask that you speak with me personally before you do. I will either fix the problem or assist you in finding a guild that meets your needs.
(Edited by Amberryl at 6:57 am on May 14, 2003)
Woops... I think I violated that one a few times. And here I always thought people enjoyed my rants in guild chat about how overpowered skalds and assassins are. :\
edit - ....
(Edited by Zutroy at 11:02 pm on Dec. 6, 2003)
Spirit of the Law > Letter of the Law.
1) F*&&*^* Echoic!
2) F*&&*^* Axecleaver!
I always handle that 2nd one in tells.
Well on Bors they have a Rank called Guild Bi**h... I am sure if i cussed out Axe i would earn myself a nice new rank all to myself :)
As far as Other games coming out i really dont know what the next good 1 will be. I tried Earth and Beyond and it just didnt appeal to me at all. And AC 2 has a lot of stuff that i will not like either. Maybe something else is on the horizon <shrug>
QuoteQuote: from Axecleaver on 4:25 pm on Oct. 17, 2002
Zaius is awesome. I kinda suck.
/bump for an out of context quote.
(Sidd is good as well, he and I often went 1st and 2nd. Wish I kept that stats page)
Uh, Axe? Uh what about me? You don't remember me repeatedly kicking your communist arse? Or covering your death runs with my phearsome sniper fire?
BTW, Axe was a paladin of sorts in that game as well. He was constantly rallying the troops, and making selfless suicidal point runs to draw fire. And always, always someone you could count on to watch your back.
Bah..enough love.
Nerf love.
I realized I played this game too much when ...
on my wicked awesome trip to Virginia (4), I yelled "auto follow" at the cars in front of me. Yeah, that didn't work well the best I could get was cruise control.
I wished I could find a minst. so I could travel at a faster speed... (ummm try stepping on the gas, it works wonders!)
My last lame thought after driving for about 12 hours, If only I could find a port hole I could port to his house and not be lost. (Thankfully Sodom managed to find me. He makes for a great port!)
... and though I realized I might have played one too many hours, I made Sodom log on so we could say "hi" because it is in this guild that you find the best people around. Thanks for making the game great!!!
We love ya too Mattee = P. Yea, Vengeance definatly does make this game great. If I had never joined this guild, i would have gotten rid of DAoC after like 2 weeks. I'm sure we could make any game great if we were all there. (I'm not suggesting we switch games yet = P I just bought SI)
I guess I view the guild as an extended family of sorts. I'm sure everyone has those days where they'd like to kill one of their family members, but then getting through times like that ends up making the family a little stronger (or a little more resistant to death threats, either way).
I have to say I'm a little envious of the folks who have been able to get together. Other than our old pal Redblade, I've never had the pleasure of meeting one of you folks face to face. I've mentioned this to one or two people, but it looks extremely likely that I'll be in Frederick, MD from the 25th through the 29th of January. If anyone wants to get together for a drink, grab a bite, or just kick my a$$ for my stupid comments, please let me know. :)
It would seem to me that this is about as far from nice play as the guild rules define it as is possible.
Greifing is so far as i understand it the killing of players so that they suffer an experience loss, something which serves no purpose other than to upset/give someone a bad day.
When someone says they have greifed someone that is the context I understand it to be.
edit: if its a chanter i specificly try to xp death them...if i could grief every damn chanter in the game i would...repeatedly
(Edited by Lifesbane at 10:52 pm on Feb. 22, 2003)
If it is a person that has done it too me in the past and i see them i will kill them then and get revenge. If it is an enemy that has made rude motions etc... I will probably not care about giving them XP death either.
As has been mentioned above though, if you XP in DF, you are basically asking for it. It's an RP zone. Also, if you XP in DF right next to the enemy's area w/ a 2-man group, you're really taking your chances. Thirdly, if you die to a frigging rejuv cleric, there is no way in hell you will complain to anyone about it, because it's probably already causing you sufficient embarassment that you're likely to just delete your character and go back to playing solitaire. :)
I'll admit that if I'm solo in the frontier and I feel like someone who could easily take me out waits until I'm engaged w/ a mob and then just stuns me, well yeah that's just mean-spirited (but also something I could avoid by staying out of the frontier). However, I recall a time when several of us were XP'ing at the ellyll village, and some sneaky Spiritmaster waited until we had pulled a Champion or something, and he sicced his pet on our cleric and caused all sorts of mayhem. I think we all died (or close to it), and he probably got some RP's. In that case, I tip my hat to the person for taking advantage of the situation and being resourceful. It's not often that one solo person can take out an entire group, and if you can get away with it then more power to you.
I know that sometimes it will be unavoidable but seems like something that should be avoided if possible. Also if that isnt greifing what is exactly?? Assume though from some officer comments here that greifing is ok under our guild rules not that i plan to do it.
As far as the excuses of quests and some loot only being available in RvR zones, I think that's BS. Yes, there are a few quests that take you out there. They typically don't take you out to a certain spot to farm Ellylls, or any of the other popular xp spots. As for loot, the reason some of the loot in these areas is good is because of the risk involved in getting it. That risk, aside from the mobs, is the potential presence of realm enemies.
If you want to take great pains to never cause an xp death for someone, that's admirable. However, I for one don't plan on standing next to a group of mids while they finish off a Nightmare in DF, because I can be sure that I am not guaranteed the same courtesy. An example to consider is the group of players (hibs in my experience) who prey on Alb XP groups at the Ellylls. They take advantage of their non-aggro status with those mobs and hide in the ruins, and come out and stun us at every opportunity while we're pulling mobs. Is it frustrating? Yes, definitely, but to me the frustration isn't because they're trying to cause an xp death to a larger group of albs. The frustration is there only because I can't chase them into the damned ruins and finish them off! :)
now, to justify it, you have to draw a line. Are you griefing because you want to? or is it to save your own skin? If you go out to provoke griefs, thats just lame.. if however youre in a situation like Pheuns where basically, if you dont wait the for guy to pull a mob, youre gonna get killed, id rather call it survival.
Theres nothing in the guild rules about griefing, just like theres nothing in the guild gules about co-operation with other realms on raids. I choose to never do it, even if the mids have all the relics and hibs are raiding or whatever, enemies are enemies wether or not we have common goals, we're still enemies according to the game rules, not the guild rules. Therefore Vengeance leaves the choice up to you. If youd rather die fighiting a 3vs1 battle honorably with no help from a mob in DF or stand a chance of winning after the grp pulls a mob, thats your own descision, but it will not be condoned by the Guild in any way.
IF HOWEVER, you go out to common exp spots just to grief (in which case you DONT get RP for kills) then youre just lame (personal opinion) and just want to provoke other peoples downfall (see pic i posted).
thats it form me
unless of course your griefing a chanter
But I don't remember if I've ever been killed while facing off against a mob called for by an epic. Mostly because I either do them when few people are on or because I can't get to them because there are too many enemies in the frontier. I just don't try to.
I don't think epics should have been in the frontiers at all. It's mythics idea of 'streamlining' pve into pvp.
I don't like griefing myself, but as others said, there's risk involved in being in these zones. Partially why I rarely go to df any more. AC is much better imo.
That's a huge assumption based on your opinion of what is and is not 'griefing.'
To me, it's very simple: There are plenty of places to exp safe from enemies. You assume all risks when you go to an RvR zone. If you don't want to kill an enemy engaged with a mob, that's up to you. Saying that the officers in Vengeance condone grief play is flat out wrong and is based solely on your opinion.
A better example of grief play is the guy that killed the DF merchants in his own realm and prevented his ream-mates from buying equipment. He did this repeatedly for hours and several nights in a row and said he was doing it to piss off the people in his own realm.
Harassing or griefing your own guildies/realmmates is worse than causing your enemy a little loss of experience. There's very little someone can do about someone in their own realm harassing them except to /appeal.
However, if you want to avoid an exp death by the hands of the enemy you can just zone out and go somewhere else.
(Edited by Caohmin at 8:33 am on Feb. 24, 2003)
QuoteQuote: from Caohmin on 10:20 am on Feb. 24, 2003
"...officers in Vengeance condone grief play"
?
O.o
If you've ever been there, there's no line of sight there, it's on the other side of the wall. So sure enough, about 5 seconds later the whole group comes charging through to find me. I went in TOWARD them figuring I'd be safer among the knights when they repopped than out in the cave where 8 people searching for 1 stealther would surely find me.
As luck would have it, knights repopped on them as they were moving back through. They got 3 knights (which wouldn't normally be a problem) and one angry infiltrator. I killed the druid with my perf chain, got mezzed, then dotted. I pop an invig potion (I had cheapies then). The chanter pet goes down despite the bard healing furiously, so I kill the bard while the knights beat on the chanter.
At this point I'm out of endurance, and kill one of the other casters who's trying to keep the chanter alive. Knights kill him. A warden who healed too much is the next to go. The other chanter is now killing knights with his pet who's managed to get aggro, but he can't take focus shield off to kill me or the knights get him. He kills the last knight with pbae, and it looks like trouble for axe.
So now it's down to a mentalist, a chanter, and me. The chanter must be out of power, because he comes over to melee me. I'm at about 10% health and it looks like I might be the ignoble victim of a staffkill. But I finally get the mentalist, and then (of course) I get an evade in. GG Dragonfang/hamstring (out of endurance) and unstyled melee to win it with about 2% life left.
So that's why I'm called a griefer.
We'll meet at the prydwen bridge, form groups and make sure each group has a sorc or mins with confuse. We'll move to mithra's at approx 8:15pm and zone in. Once inside, DO NOT GO DOWN! We'll rebuff and proceed down together as a group.
Along the way down to the promise room, we'll stop to confuse any mobs that are currently being fought and also confuse any mobs in the vicinity of the person fighting them. Once that person dies, we'll progress downwards again. If at any time a rez is requested, tell them not to release but don't rez them. If they keep asking you, tell them you're lost and need directions again.
When we reach the promise room, we'll clear the room multiple times, ensuring camp bonus is almost totally shot. If there's a full group camping that area, we'll use confuse to kill them first then we'll clear out the spawn.
After mithra's has been purged of lowbies, it's on to keltoi.
Edit: Oh and nice quote out of context. =)
That was me quoting something Bolldar said.
(Edited by Caohmin at 10:52 pm on Feb. 15, 2004)