Vengeance

Are we getting a WOW Forum for the Release.

Just keep putting stuff in the public/private forums imo.

I just got flamed on the VN WoW boards =) the mod was cool he locked the thread and PM'ed me his addvice =)

http://vnboards.ign.com/WoW_General_Board/b19789/78158827/?37

lol that thread is awesome.

So where is Vengeance of DAoC is heading?
I am getting realy lonly the last few days :(
On the good side my scout hit 50 :)

Warrior for sure... but I think Barney will be better.

haha

Grats, Darg!

Grats!

Hi dargo!

Hi all :)

hey look, it's Jasper

Hey Jasper

whee Wow invades daoc forums!

Edit: Hey Jasp!

(Edited by Kirin at 11:48 am on Dec. 5, 2004)

Emme and I may join another guild since almost everyone has left.

That'll leave me, inflight, dargoh and darkmancer. Are we disbanding Veng doac?

hmm.. i wouldnt nescessarily say we`re disbanding the guild, but i think it would be safe to say that for a number of us, our Daoc days are over :(

yeah, we had a good run

while cleaning my bookcase the other day i found my original daoc manual and flipped through it. It made me miss the old days running around camelot hills and salisbury as a noob scout. I don't think any game will ever match that experience... it's too bad mythic has run the game into the ground the last year.

Problem is, all the things they're intoducing into DAOC are attempts to "catch-up" with other games: The Catacombs graphic updates, the NPC-quest indicators, instanced dungeons, all of it. And I'm sure that for someone experiencing the game for the first time, they're welcome additions. But they're not "new" or innovative. DAOC is good for what it does, but what it does is stale (at least to me). WoW, at least right now, is the least "vanilla" of the fantasy MMORPGs on the market, and I'm enjoying the change in flavor for the time being.

Nice summary Sod, I agree w/ that.  

The thing that finally turned me off to DAoC was how artifacts and MLs became absolutely necessary in order to compete.  They said that wouldn't be the case, but we know how it turned out.  Since my preference is not to spend hours upon hours of farming mobs for scrolls, ML steps, and actual artifacts (many of which you can't do w/o the help of many many people who either decrease  your chances of obtaining the object you need or are somehow helping you out of the goodness of their heart instead of participating in the endgame), I'm left with few options.  I can continue to be barely adequate in RvR groups while trying to counteract the stun/nuke and pbaoe tower campers, or I can try my hand at something else.  

WoW is at least a fresh experience, with good game mechanics, apparently less "gimp" specs, and anyone who calls the graphics cartoony hasn't spent much time in DAoC Hibernia.  I enjoy the familiar Warcraft I-III storyline that's woven into the game through quests and even just things you stumble across during your journeys.  I cracked up the first time I found a bunch of orc NPC's clearing a forest, hehe.  There are plenty of tongue-in-cheek references too (zeppelin master called Hin Denberg is probably the most obvious).

Anyway, for me it's made me really look forward to logging on again, which is probably how a game should be.

I think they are definately cartoonish from the screen shots ive seen and have had several people who have played it tell me the same. Funnily we have all played DAOC Hibernia which doesnt lookl cartoonish at all by comparision. Nor would I say the things that DAOC is doing are playing catch up at all, its coming out only weeks after WoW and graphically is far better and was under developement at the same time.

So far im yet to hear anything innovative about WoW either, leaving aside corny jokes and their absolutely sucky distribution policies.

to give you my perspective, ive logged into daoc once sence i got into the WoW beta. i just have no interest in playing it anymore.

i thought the WoW graphics we're cartoonish from the screenies too, but once i actually played the game i really started to like them. the world is very immersive, and the WC plot is put very well into the quests, zones, mobs, ect. also, ive have yet to experience video lag ONCE in wow...sure beats the hell out of daoc in that department.

edit - and i only need 1 (yes thats right, one) account to play effectively! wheee

(Edited by Lifesbane at 12:15 pm on Dec. 8, 2004)

And the people who don't like WoW's "cartoony" graphics probably also disliked the "cartoony" graphics of the latest Legend of Zelda game. It's a stylistic choice that impacts the gameplay experince little if at all. And right now, WoW offers a superior gameplay experience, to my mind.

Bolld, I know there are a number of Aussies playing the game: Is the game not being sold there? Or is it that they don't have any Aussie-specific servers?

"Funnily we have all played DAOC Hibernia which doesnt lookl cartoonish at all by comparision"

I wasn't trying to start a debate about this, but I have played both and DAoC Hibernia is laughably cartoonish.  I guess it depends on what your definition of "cartoonish" is, but they're all animations and in my opinion they made fewer strides toward animated reality in Hibernia than they (meaning Mythic's artists) did in either of the other two realms.  

To me, the WoW objects are detailed renderings of the animation style used in the various preceding Warcraft games, which themselves got more detailed in succession.  I think the physical animations (i.e. realistic movement) is probably much more advanced in WoW, and I did play Catacombs beta.  Catacombs is definitely an improvement graphically over regular DAoC, but if so I think it supports the notion that original DAoC was just as cartoonish if not more so than other games.  Maybe cartoonish isn't the best word to use, maybe we're looking for a word more like "primitive" or "non-photorealistic".  

One example for me, regardless of the color pallette you prefer or find visually engaging, is that the character models in DAoC are comprised of nicely detailed skins over fairly simple/generic skeletons, especially in the area of facial features.  I think WoW's skeletons/frames are more detailed, which enhances the appearance to me.

Aside from the eye candy, I think the PvE gameplay is a huge improvement.  Granted, they've had some time to do it better, but I think they've managed to strike a nice balance between killing mobs and questing for xp, and they've also managed to make each player uniquely valuable in a group setting, yet still viable in a solo or duo situation, which is no small accomplishment.  I can't really speak to PvP balance at this point since I haven't tried that yet.  I think the crafting systems are preferable to the ones available in Camelot, although at this point I think that high-end Camelot crafters as a whole probably have more possibility of using their craft to make a significant amount of money than their counterparts in WoW.  

I think they're both good games, but for me DAoC has run its course (barring any new developments), and WoW is a fresh thing with new ideas and new combinations of older ideas.  Give it a try, you might like it.

p.s.  for those who truly value a "realistic" graphical experience, I'd suggest buying Riven or Myst or something like that.  

I am having a lot of fun in WoW so far, and don't really feel like playing DAOC anymore. But I think that at some point, I'm going to be more interested in PvP, as the treasures of the new world can't hold my attention forever. At that point if the pvp sucks I can see going back to daoc for the pvp aspect. Although I am not sure if there's a lot of good pvp left there to be had anyway.

I understand your desire to move on, a deserted guild is depressing. Do what you think will net you the best game experience and if you decide to try WoW anyway, we'll be there waiting for you.

Speaking of PvP, I was in Ashenvale the other night in a pickup group doing quests. For those not familiar with the geography, Ashenvale is an Alliance zone in the west (mostly dark elves) and a Horde zone in the east. As my group was completing a quest not 5 seconds run from an Alliance village, one member of my group spotted a duo of dark elves with their PvP flag on. It was two level 30's vs. 4 low-20's and we schooled them quickly and effectively. I would attribute this to them being suprised (their druid was in manatee form the whole fight), though we were just as suprised as them.

I'm not sure if we earned any "honor" for the fight, I'll have to see if I can find it on a stats page someplace.

Also, fyi: If you aggro the guards at an Alliance outpost, your PvP immunity flag will be turned off. I'm pretty sure this is only temporary, but it also effects anyone you're currently grouped with.

do you think that includes getting pwned by the superl33t guards at Southshore in Hillsbrad?  Damn, I got just a little too close the other day, and they let me know in pretty clear terms that I shouldn't be there.

"for those who truly value a "realistic" graphical experience"

If that's your only criteria, go play SWG. They actually used motion capture for their character models and the amount of customization - not only on the characters themselves but the clothing as well - is amazing. There's actually a profession dedicated to image design.

...but beneath all that is a horribly unbalanced game with probably the worst dev team in the history of MMORPGs.

Blizzard as I understand it only released WoW in the USA and Canada. Ive heard talk via third parties of Australian servers but im fairly certain they dont exist and since they didnt even release it here making servers would seem a slim possibility. It's certainly not on sale in the stores and ill admit I find the fact that US players always get a head start in these games quite annoying. Im also not impressed that they will not let European playes play WoW on American servers even if they buy it from the states. Nydian who is Scandanavian told me this, apparently they can track the IP address and determine roughly where it comes from, I believe its so they can start European servers eventually but with the exophobic attitudes displayed by their PR man towards anyone outside the US who knows.

Speaking of graphics, if you like WoWs graphics then more power to you, I find them very cartoonish and your right I dont like the Zelda graphics. The new Hibernian characters in Catacombs are extremely lifelike as are all the new toons even down to having animated facial expressions. Ross are you sure you had the Catacombs graphics turned on?? It didnt turn on automatically and the differences were pretty dramatic when it was.

Emme is playing because her boss bought the game for her but doesnt sound overly impressed by it as of yet. If she decided to try it I might do so too but as yet that is a mute point since its unavailable to buy here and im not that keen that I can be bothered to mail order it.

At moment im pretty much alone when I play so not sure what I will do. But I rarely ever see a guildie anymore other than Emme.

"It's certainly not on sale in the stores and ill admit I find the fact that US players always get a head start in these games quite annoying."

It's called home field advantage. 12th man > australia.

I originally thought the WoW graphics were a bit cartoonish.  The keyboard config definately took a bit of getting used to over DAoC.  But I too have only logged into DAoC once since WoW release.  

I actually find it refreshing.  My lvl 10 preist can actually take a lvl 10 or 11 mob.  My friar couldn't do that til lvl 35 practically.  I also like the detail to the graphics.  Facial expressions, if you type 'lol' you actually laugh.  If you do a /s you actually have movement from your character.  These are all simple little things.  But they are refreshing and offer something DAoC hasn't yet.  I'm still going to get catacombs, but we'll have to see which one keeps my interest.  As of now, WoW definately has my attention.

"Ross are you sure you had the Catacombs graphics turned on??"

That's a good question.  I did go through the full install and played around with some settings, but I honestly can't say for sure that I did.  I will say that it looked remarkably better than my normal New Frontiers graphics, but I was in different areas (i.e. the Catacombs) than where I would normally be, so maybe it was just the new backgrounds that did it for me.  I'm certainly not saying they were bad, hehe.

I particularly liked some underground temple that I found... it had some giant statue in the center and was pretty good looking.  I got a kick out of the mine car rides, and really liked the idea of being able to traverse many of the old Camelot zones quickly by using the catacombs to move between dungeons (i.e. going from Barrows to Mithra took seconds if you went through the cracks in the walls).  I'm not sure how widespread that will be, but it was enjoyable.

"That'll leave me, inflight, dargoh and darkmancer. Are we disbanding Veng doac?"

Well like i told you in game already Sydd i desided not to move to an other guild.
I talked to Zaan and redattack and they both want to stay in Vengeance (as am i) so  Vengeance will be alive and kicking in DAoC even if is just the McFierce family only that keeps it alive.
When i told my son that most of Vengeance is not going to be around any more and if he wants to move to an other guild  he was crying his eyes out, he say that he will never join an other guild and if i want to move i can go ahead but he will stay in Vengeance.
You see for the McFierces Vengeance is more than just a guild it is a family :)
The way you all took us in the guild from the start and the way you were all great with Redattack (special you Axe) realy made us feel connected to Vengeance.
No other guild would have take a four and a half year old and treat him so nice (he just turned eight few days ago by the way).
The first few days we were worried and keeping an eye to make sure the guild will be ok with a little kid around, but after that we saw how great every one was with him that we actualy let him play DAoC all alone with out having to worry that some one might say something wrong.
So like i say earlyer Vengeance is not just a guild to us IT IS Family and we will keep it running.
My only problem is to make sure that there are enough BPs to keep a Keep or Tower claimed at all times because Redattack wants the Vengeance flag up on one of them so every one knows that Vengeance is still around :)
Who knows we might actualy find good people  (will never bee as good as the originals) to recruit in the future.
Ok enough talking Tydd will jump all over me to give me a new holle :) , i just wanted you guys to know that Vengeance will stay in DAoC even if it is just the three of us :)

PS: Thanks alot Ross for the money you gave to Red he was realy happy that he can get a respec stone :)
Turned out that the only ones for sale are the full respec and they are 20pp but he put the pp you gave him on the side to get it later when we get the full amount that he needs :)
He keept telling me over and over again after you left...."We heave realy good people in Vengeance dont we dad? " you realy made his day thanks bro :)
  

my pleasure, I'm glad he's had such a good experience.  I'll try to pop in over the next couple of days to give you some of the better stuff out of my vault if you want it.  If people are still buying scrolls, I have some that are probably worth some money.

grats @ red for the ding irl :)

i still think red was a better pally then most of the newbs out there too :)

lmao true that Lb, sepceially when that loser ROss would play my pally to farm for cash

Hey Dargoh.   Why don't you and my future 2nd wife come play with us.  :D

The switch I referred to turns on the Catacombs figure graphics so all the backgrounds etc would still be as they are in Cats but you would have just seen normal figure graphics. The new ones are a lot lot better and extremely life like with smiling grimacing blinking movements in the face and with vastly detailed armour and clothes. You should check it out the switch is under options at the character select screen.

Emme and I are unsure what we are doing yet, but will no alliance, no officers and no GL and hardly anyone on something needs to happen.

when's catacombs supposed to be released?

Aw... that was a really touching story Dargoh. I miss the McFierces.

"Why don't you and my future 2nd wife come play with us."

Many reasons.
First we cant afford to have both WoW and DAoC the same time, you see 3 accounts on each the add up for the month :)
2nd: Redattack is too attached to his Paladin and he dont let go no mater what.
3rd: Zaan dont have much time to play any more so she cant afford to start a new game, she will never manage to keep up with the rest of the guild:(
4th: i love PvP the way it is in DAoC even with all the balanse problems. I dont like the "Run around kill every one you see just to kill him" PvP kind that all the ohter games have.
and Last i hate Exping, i love my 5 lvl 50s in DAoC i put too much work on them to let go and start all over again :)
The way i see it DAoC gives you a reason to get to lvl 50 so you can be strong enough to go RvR.
I was playing EQ for 3 years and at the end i say "what the hell i am getting my characters to higher level for?? :)
Like some one say i dont like just mindles monster killing just to get stronger and get more items, i want a reason to make my characters strong and powerfull, not just so i can go kill the next monster :)

PS: Ross Catacombs are out already for 3 days now:)

(Edited by Dargoh at 12:56 pm on Dec. 10, 2004)

hehe, shows where my head is...

^    ...so many posibilities for that one, i just cant chose :)

Darg, you know WoW has PvP too? And it's not the free-for-all PvP like some other games. PvP if you want to kind of a thing. First month is free if you want to just check it out. Fun PvE with PvP at the end similar to DAoC.

Dargoh, if you ever want to play a 50 inf, lemme know.

Edit: lmao Lifes!

(Edited by Kirin at 4:06 pm on Dec. 11, 2004)

One thing I don't like about the PVP on the server we are on is that an alliance person can run thru our land and we can't touch him till he turns his flag on.   It kinda sucks to see someone I know I have a chance at beating and he's just running around like there is nothing wrong with him being there.

actually ive found amusing ways to try to trick pepole into attacking me with my flag is on.. from stealth ill unstealth on the person with my pvp flag on, and do something like trigger evasion, or something will a spell-like effect, and theyll immitatly think that for some reason, youve broken the rules and can attack them. Then they 'defend' themselves and turn their pvp flags on. then you wreck em.

PS. only works on noobs :), anyone with a moderate amount of experience will not fall for this, but i got a 31st mage the other day!

let the trickery begin....

more fun & exciting PvP-forcing exploits are discussed here (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=286975&p=1&tmp=1#post286975)

Peope doing stuff like that is one of the reasons I dont like PvP

I can't imagine playing this game on a PvP server after level 20. In alot of the areas for the level 35+ horde quests, I see like twice as many alliance players running around as horde.

And by twice as many, you mean 8 nightelf rangers and 3 dwarf paladins. I could swear there's only two race/class combinations available to alliance players.

no one seems to play gnome. Id say races are pretty balanced in our realm. lots of cows, lots of undead, less trolls and orcs

Is it just me...or have you noticed that it seems there aren't any 'female' orcs or taurens?  Think i baffled everyone when i played my female tauren druid the other day...lol!!

Axelete loves her "orc girl". Have you gotten a dress from her yet? I'll tell her you want a dress. I never realized the belts looked different til I saw her with a pack full of belts "accessorizing" her orc girl.

hehe, Orc Barbie...

That's the part my daughter loved best...even in DAoC.  See, AF is soooooooo  over-rated.  As long as you look good getting killed, that's all that matters. :)  

Amen. The one thing DAOC lacks it a common pool of items that have relatively similar stats but "look different," at least at low levels. And the ability to change the appearance of said items very inexpensively (dyes).

Is it just me, or is everyone else running around totally outfitted in drops? Cash is scarce at level 20+, because training your skills becomes so expensive. If the choice is using a drop specced for someone 5 levels lower than you and looking like a bum, or finding a crafter who can make you something better and spending the requisite cash...

(Edited by Sodom at 4:03 pm on Dec. 15, 2004)

most of what I'm wearing is drops or quest rewards

although i like the look of the items individually, and the overall style and detailing, the combination of various colors and styles that I'm wearing now is pretty clownish.  on top of that, as an undead, my vertebrae stick out thru whatever I'm wearing and nothing seems able to cover my toenails.

it seems like the intent is that your best pieces will be drops or quest rewards and crafted stuff fills in the gaps.  one thing I like is that, at least with cloth (where AF doesn't mean a whole lot)  a decent item can last through 5-10 levels.

one thing i am worried about though is once everyone is all outfitted at 60 what use will a tailor be?

I was thinking that with enchanting at least, there may be an ongoing market for custom stat buffs/effects for particular quests (e.g. fire resistance when facing a dragon) which is a different paradigm than spellcrafting in DAOC.

does tailor have a specialisation like leatherworking or tailoring?
and Foop, dont worry, im sure once lv 60s become mroe common, the devs will throw in some crafter love as the game gets more developed for the high end. I remember at DAOC launch the highest material was Asterite, and plate that material conned yellow. We used to fight for Eternal Midnight drops in the barrows (and that was only after months when barrows was itemized).. ahh those were the days.
Im sure theyll add recepies to cater for the growing population of high end peeps. and ultimtely, you NEED to put in an incentive for crafters, otherwise none would ever bother to get to max skill.. Dont get bored skilling when you hit 350 and think its over! im sure the cap will rise eventually

mmmmmmm crafter love.

at high levels you can specialize in tailoring.  not entirely clear to me what the difference is in branches except that one of the lines seems clearly oriented to mages (frost damage enhancement) and the other is for warlocks (shadow damage).  

In Leatherworking we have 3 lines:
Elemental Leatherworking

The two recipes it gives are both high agility, and leather. (Helm of Fire [132 armor, 5 sv Fire, 28 agility - clickable DD] and Gauntlets of the Sea [110 armor, 16 agility, clickable 300-500 pt heal]).

Tribal Leatherworking

Allows you to make Feathered Breastplates (211 armor 36 spirit - leather) and, I think, Wolfshead Helm (120 armor, 20 stamina, clickable AE silence - leather).

Dragonscale Leatherworking

Allows you to make Dragonscale Breastplate (355 armor, 5 sv fire, 30 stamina, clickable magical damage absorption of 600 points - mail) and Dragonscale Gauntlets (179 armor, 5sv for all resists, 12 strength - mail).

theyre all pretty cool and have their perks. only 2 recepies per specialisation tho